help me learn

[hapki-bujutsu]

Hello. I was just wondering. I put a not so well acepted post in another area that suggested tkd was good for sport and not good for fighting. This upset a lot of people. The funny thing is when people gave me some info i didn't have( I never trained in tkd to be honest) They refused to accept an i'm sorry I could be wrong. I really feel I judged just on what my hapkido teacher said and what i have read in my self defense magazines. I just found out recently that it is not uncommon for hapkido and tkd to argue. My kenpo teacher as a child spoke agaist it as well. Then i just heard that there use to be a big fight between kenpo and tkd guys a while back. This guy just going off and not let me take back my statment is not helping me at all. Does anyone know where I can find out more about the self defense aspect of tkd. Would you fight the same way on the street as you would for sport? do you modify it? Do you teach two ways in the dojang? Maybe one way for street and one for sport. I really just want to learn so I don't go out offending people making statments i know nothing about. Please help me in this matter. I just want to learn more about this art.

with respect
Eric

 

[Quick Sand]

It's hard to give specifics. Whether any particular TKD club is focused or sport aspects or other totally depends on who's running it. From my experience WTF style tends to be more sport oriented. From my understand many WTF schools use olympic rules etc. My style has no affiliation to them, we are much more self defense oriented. We do some sparring but not a whole lot and we learn lots of hand techniques. My style holds one tournament a year and it's only open to our own students (there are at least 4 or 5 hundred students in the association). It's mostly a place to get together and have fun and talk to each other. The black belts give demos and it's a good time. Other then that we don't do much on the sport side of things.

It's like most other styles, some schools will focus much more on tournaments or self defense etc. As for other aspects people often talk about how TKD's high kicks are no good for self defense but just because we can kick high doesn't mean we are limited to that. In the dojang I can kick up to my own head height on a centre kick but if I were in a real self defense situation I'm much more likely to go for my opponents knees or legs or targets like that. It's all about adapting to the current situation.

Here's the link to my associations main website. I'm not sure how much it will help but it's a place to start.
American Kang Duk Won Tae Kwon Do

 

[Zepp]

Likewise, I also train in a combat-oriented style of TKD. Our Grandmaster began his training in Korea under the head of the first kwan to open there following the Japanese occupation. If you search the internet for information on the Chung Do Kwan, GM Won Kuk Lee, GM Duk Sung Son, or some of the other early kwans, you'll find plenty of information on TKD's origins as a fighting art (and the political infighting that brought it to where it is today).

My organization's website can be found here: World Tae Kwon Do Association
(Sadly, it isn't updated too often and doesn't have much historical info. though.)

 

[Marginal]

Originally posted by hapki-bujutsu
Hello. I was just wondering. I put a not so well acepted post in another area that suggested tkd was good for sport and not good for fighting. This upset a lot of people. The funny thing is when people gave me some info i didn't have( I never trained in tkd to be honest) They refused to accept an i'm sorry I could be wrong.

Odd how you only hesitantly allow that you might be wrong. (A step up from your girlfirend telling you that it was just testosterone making TKD people refuse to admit that they were practicing a useless art...)

Does anyone know where I can find out more about the self defense aspect of tkd.

Try the yellow pages. Doing's better than seeing.

Would you fight the same way on the street as you would for sport?

No. (Cant' kick low or grap/grapple under ITF sparring rules.)

do you modify it? Do you teach two ways in the dojang?

That's how it's presented in the classes I take.

I really just want to learn so I don't go out offending people making statments i know nothing about. Please help me in this matter. I just want to learn more about this art.

Yellow pages. Should be at least one decent TKD school nearby.

 

[hapki-bujutsu]

Thanks for the sites from the top two posters! this is what I was looking for. As far as the girlfriend thing goes my wife doesn't allow me to have one.

it's funn y that combat people hate to be looked at a certianway but I guess we can do it back too. Not good.

Thanks again for the sites. I also saw somthing that talked about tkd being mixed with shotokan as well. I was not aware of that. Live and learn. Thanks!! Cool sites.

 

[Galvatron]

I haven't read the original argument, and I'm not attempting to begin another here; but in my eyes if a person has never studied Taekwondo they are not qualified to comment on it's effectiveness as a martial art. (watching class at the local ATA school does not constitute "studying")

I've encountered Hapkido students (along with students of many other styles) in my day that didn't know their **** from a hole in the ground, but it hardly affects my opinion of the style as a whole.
TKD is no different in that regard.

 

[hapki-bujutsu]

that was what i did. i judged many by a few. It was wrong. but when i said so everyone didn't want to beleive they covinced me. it was funny. they where like this and this and this. So i said you are right my mistake. And they kept going like they didn't think there thougghts mattered i guess.

We all live and learn

 

[Mithios]

The classical Chung Do Kwan and original I.T.F. system that i come through is very very self defense oriented! Sweep's, throw's, joint lock's, control hold's and more hand's than feet and no tournament stuff ! problem is you have to search hard these day's to find that kind of training. And that is a shame !!! MITHIOS

 

[hardheadjarhead]

The thread to which Hapki-bujutsu refers to is here:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11445

The thread was titled "can we all just get along", and its found in the General Martial Arts section.

The Tae Kwon Do practitioners here will appreciate the fact that a number of non-TKD folks jumped to the defense of Tae Kwon Do as a self defense art.

Hapki-Bujutsu encountered some vigorous resistance to his views that TKD was a "dance", and lacked any combative function.

Its an interesting thread. I invite people to check it out.

Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[Touch Of Death]

I've studied both Tae kwon do and Kenpo. The one thing they both have in common is that they think they are the end all be all to Martial Arts. They both are right in ther own understanding. Tae Kwon Do (or at least what I've seen) focuses on the proper kick and there interpretation of a proper punch to, by trial and error, develop proper fighting skills. Kenpo bombards you with information and brings you up through the belt levels by bombarding you with even more information. Both have there merits; however, I feel they both are missing the boat if they don't recognize the value of both methods of training.
Sean

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I've studied both Tae kwon do and Kenpo. The one thing they both have in common is that they think they are the end all be all to Martial Arts.

I have yet to run into a martial art where certain people didn't think their system was the best around.

You're correct in pointing out that both miss out if they don't recognize the other's merits. Again, that could be said of just about any art in placed in tension with any other art.

So many of us spend an inordinate amount of time contrasting different arts in a negative way, rather than noting how zippy some of the stuff from the other styles is...and how it can complement what we're already doing.

I just found out recently that it is not uncommon for hapkido and tkd to argue.

Every Korean I knew that taught in Indiana in the 1970's had multiple black belts in Tae Kwon Do and/or Hapkido or Judo. Every TKD black belt studying under my TKD/HKD master studied Hapkido...most had dan rankings in it. In Korea in 1981 I found many Korean Marines had multiple black belts in TKD and HKD. I don't see an argument here.


Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[hapki-bujutsu]

I guess even tang soo do guys got in on the act I was reading on line. Some people did both. It takes a big man to admit when he was wrong I think after all the reading i have done letly I was way off. That is why places like this are good. You do learn on here. Some people say hapkido for fight tkd for sport. The gentleman I spoke to in the hapkidopost who also knows my former master knows where i am comming from. I now disagree. I think some schools do 90% sport but i think other schools do not.
My thoughts on tkd have changed dramiticly sense comming to these boards. I want to thank everyone who gave me posative input with out an attack. I had a great chance to learn a few new things.

 

[karatekid1975]

You did the right thing, dude

As far as TKD, my school isn't sport. We attend one tourny a year. We learn everything from breakfalls to throws to joint locks to grappling on top of the TKD "norm" (kicking, punching, forms, one steps, ect). I believe that my school teaches a well rounded version on TKD (not that others don't). We are affiliated with the WTF.

But my boyfriends school IS sport (reason I left that school and he stayed). They don't learn nearly half the stuff my school teaches. But I teach him stuff anyways hehehehe. His school is also WTF.

So, I don't think that the association (sp?) matters. It depends on the owner/instructor of a school. There are good TKD schools out there

 

[Mithios]

Just went to the other thread. Some people take themselve's way to seriously. Hell i am in TaeKwon-Do, and i don't see anything wrong with what you wrote, typed, whatever. Mithios

 

[Marginal]

Guess one's mileage varies, but "TKD is a useless dance" kinda implies that TKD's not a MA by any definition of the term.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Just went to the other thread. Some people take themselve's way to seriously. Hell i am in TaeKwon-Do, and i don't see anything wrong with what you wrote, typed, whatever.

Mithios,

Once again, I point out that many of the people who argued with Hapki-Bujutsu over this point were NOT Tae Kwon Do people. They had no stake in this debate.

He claimed TKD was a "dance". People called him on it and his method of defending this and other statements.

Once again, I encourage people to read the whole thread if they wish to get the gist and tone of the argument.

He wrote:

TKD is a dance that kinda looks like a fight

Tkd is not a fighting art. It is an art that mimics fighting. But I repete but there is nothing wrong with that.

He repeatedly took an insulting tone, and then attempted to soften it with condescension. This did little to win the hearts of those he debated.

Here on this thread, I have to admit, he assumes a different tone in repenting. It is unfortunate he didn't do that in the thread mentioned. Still, I take note that he is doing it now.

It needs to be said there was another issue brought up by myself and others in that thread, and wrongly so, as it violated the forums rules. I don't think anybody posting there was aware of that infraction. I certainly wasn't, and I will try my best not to bring it up again in a public format.

It was an unfortunate faux pas on my part and led to the lockdown of two threads. I mention this in the hope that nobody resurrects the issue.

Suffice to say it would behoove everyone to check the MartialTalk support forum, if you haven't been there. It has helpful updates to the general rules. This will help us all avoid a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the future.


Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[Dragongup]

Truth be told, you hit the proverbial nail on the head. I'm practicing in both Hapkido, and Tae Kwon Do, and the Hapkido side seems the more street lethal of the two arts. But my master has always made his students practice Tae Kwon Do for both aspects of application. The stuff I learn for the street has the kicks aimed lower, due to the speed that factors in there. Also the lower extremities are less protected. Punching factors in a bit more also. I also study a mixture of arts made for the military and police force that mixes in Tae Kwon Do, it mixes good for certain situations, and at other times, it will get you killed.

 

[elcajon555]

I would say that my martial arts school is more on the end of fighting rather than sport. I know a lot of schools do point sparring, which is simply a sport. We have full contact sparring and at times we have even street fought. We study hapkido, but the main focus is still on the punching and kicking. We also do ground fighting, throws, and pressure points. As mentioned before in self defense punching is more applicable then the kicks, but if kicks are used then kicking the lower legs is a good opinion, they can;t do much if their knee is broken.

 

[glad2bhere]

Well, since you asked for help, HB, let me start at the basics.

I, for one, would not come onto a Net dedicated to Korean MA with a moniker like "hapki-bujutsu". I am sure you probably have a real good rationale for this but it tends to come across like fingernails on a blackboard for some of us. A parallel might be calling your TKD instructor "sensei". It just don't wash.

Also, I don't know that it ever serves someones learning to start out with a critical or perhaps a disparaging comment regarding an art. There are a number of approaches both in arts and training that go against me grain, but if mixing material from different arts and then identifying it as entirely of one of those arts winds somebody's clock who am I to *****, right? Its not MY cup of tea, but what of it? FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Bruce,

HB has been gone for quite some time now. I don't think he's going to come back.

Steve

Well, since you asked for help, HB, let me start at the basics.

I, for one, would not come onto a Net dedicated to Korean MA with a moniker like "hapki-bujutsu". I am sure you probably have a real good rationale for this but it tends to come across like fingernails on a blackboard for some of us. A parallel might be calling your TKD instructor "sensei". It just don't wash.

Also, I don't know that it ever serves someones learning to start out with a critical or perhaps a disparaging comment regarding an art. There are a number of approaches both in arts and training that go against me grain, but if mixing material from different arts and then identifying it as entirely of one of those arts winds somebody's clock who am I to *****, right? Its not MY cup of tea, but what of it? FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce