Head lock used in Judo

[dvcochran]

If he can get to that point, it’ll be more effective. If the opponent recognizes the setup early enough, he can simply duck under the arm as he’s initiating the headlock.

If he does get the throw, and if the opponent is halfway experienced, he’ll start rolling out of it before he hits the mat/ground.

Wrestlers generally stop throwing the head and arm after their first few months for good reason- it’s too easy to counter. Against someone who’s new, it works fine enough. In a street situation, sure, use it. But be prepared to get out of trouble if you mess up a little bit.

I used to be able to rotate my body through the throw if I felt the other person applying force. But that has been a few years. You can land with some force on their body if done right. I think we call it a whirlybird? Sound familiar?

 

[JR 137]

I used to be able to rotate my body through the throw if I felt the other person applying force. But that has been a few years. You can land with some force on their body if done right. I think we call it a whirlybird? Sound familiar?

It doesn’t sound familiar. But there’s so many ways to do it and people call stuff lots of different things.

Side note...
I’ve been covering wrestling as an athletic trainer all season. I’ve seen about 3 head and arm attempts, all at the freshman and JV level. 1 duck under and 2 re-rolls.

Only 1 successful head and arm. That was a varsity wrestler. Both were on their knees, one guy behind the other. The back guy took a chance by putting his head out there and got burned. Can’t duck under from that position, and there’s not enough momentum to roll through. Really stupid move - he was up about 7-0 and got caught and pinned with it with less than a minute left.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If he can get to that point, it’ll be more effective. If the opponent recognizes the setup early enough, he can simply duck under the arm as he’s initiating the headlock.

If he does get the throw, and if the opponent is halfway experienced, he’ll start rolling out of it before he hits the mat/ground.

Wrestlers generally stop throwing the head and arm after their first few months for good reason- it’s too easy to counter. Against someone who’s new, it works fine enough. In a street situation, sure, use it. But be prepared to get out of trouble if you mess up a little bit.

Rolling through...

This is one of those techniques I categorize as "reliable when it's available" as well as "expect it to end on the ground". Standing leg sweeps like osoto gari are in that same group (for much of the same reasons).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

She also has the arm so isn't that more than just a "head lock"?

The head lock should always include the "leading arm control". This way your opponent only has 1 free arm. If you don't control that leading arm, that leading arm can reach to your leg.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If your opponent's "free arm wrap around your waist", you should change your head lock into over hook.

If you also horse back kick your opponent's legs off the ground, he can't roll and you can land right on top of him, follow by a side mount.

When you train head lock, not only you will need to train how to counter it. You will also need to train how to counter those counters as well.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

he can simply duck under the arm as he’s initiating the headlock.

If your opponent ducks under your arm, you can apply a "reverse head lock". When one door is closed, another door will open.

 

[JR 137]

If your opponent ducks under your arm, you can apply a "reverse head lock". When one door is closed, another door will open.

Ducking under the headlock won’t put you in front of them; it’ll put you behind them. Remember, they’re turning their body while throwing it; you simply duck under the headlock, allowing them to go by you. You’re either standing behind them or on top and behind, depending on how committed to the throw he was. Video would be great here, but I haven’t found exactly what I’m talking about.

 

[JR 137]

This is the only way the head and arm throw reliably works IMO. Yes he’s standing when he actually throws it, but he just about had it before they got up, and he had it 90% before he actually threw it...

 

[JR 137]

Here’s ducking under the head and arm throw. Pretty sloppy by the guy trying to throw it, and it’s ugly, but it’s the only video I can find right now. He counters it again later on a bit differently.

About 10 seconds in. It’s kind of hard to tell he’s throwing a head and arm. He abandoned it too quickly. If he kept it, same result though.

About 1:15 in he countered another head and arm by stepping through and blocking him with his body.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ducking under the headlock won’t put you in front of them; it’ll put you behind them. Remember, they’re turning their body while throwing it; you simply duck under the headlock, allowing them to go by you. You’re either standing behind them or on top and behind, depending on how committed to the throw he was. Video would be great here, but I haven’t found exactly what I’m talking about.

If you try to use move A to set up move B, you should not commit 100% on your move A. Instead, you may only commit 30% on your move A. If your 100% commitment on move A will prevent you from changing move A into move B, you are not using combo.

In the middle of your head lock, if your can feel that your opponent's head is dodging under your arm, you should change right at that moment.

 

[TSDTexan]

Interesting. I now want to find a seminar or something to get a taste of this. Any idea if there's an association or some central information point, especially for the US? A quick search didn't turn anything up.

Gongkwon yusul USA | Korean Mixed Martial Arts | Instructor Course 2019
while the Honbu is in Seoul Korea... they seem to have a major school in Georgia.

March 16 2019 is their next seminar it looks like.
GKYS Open Seminars 2019 (GA) - Gongkwon Yusul USA - Gentle Art - Self Defense - GKYS

The style founder has gotten accused of fast tracking Kodanja of other arts into Gongkwon Dan grades to help the art off. He seems to prefer judo Hapkido and bjj guys for doing that.

The curriculum is solid from my research. There is a school in Brazil that has students competing and doing pretty well in BJJ land.

The founder was a judo champion... hasn't taken any bjj... everything is judo newaza, with some Hapkido newaza and I think Junsado (korean groundfighting)... but that last one is based on personal observation of training vids.

The founder emphasizes practical self defense over sport competitive mindsets. Not that sport is bad per se. It is two different roads up the same mountain.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Gongkwon yusul USA | Korean Mixed Martial Arts | Instructor Course 2019
while the Honbu is in Seoul Korea... they seem to have a major school in Georgia.

March 16 2019 is their next seminar it looks like.
GKYS Open Seminars 2019 (GA) - Gongkwon Yusul USA - Gentle Art - Self Defense - GKYS

The style founder has gotten accused of fast tracking Kodanja of other arts into Gongkwon Dan grades to help the art off. He seems to prefer judo Hapkido and bjj guys for doing that.

The curriculum is solid from my research. There is a school in Brazil that has students competing and doing pretty well in BJJ land.

The founder was a judo champion... hasn't taken any bjj... everything is judo newaza, with some Hapkido newaza and I think Junsado (korean groundfighting)... but that last one is based on personal observation of training vids.

Thanks! I'll have to see if I can manage that seminar.

I did see in their association page (which I finally stumbled across after I posted) that they have a program of some sort for certifying existing yudansha from other arts. Not sure what that comprises, but that kind of thing always triggers some alerts.

 

[TSDTexan]

Thanks! I'll have to see if I can manage that seminar.

I did see in their association page (which I finally stumbled across after I posted) that they have a program of some sort for certifying existing yudansha from other arts. Not sure what that comprises, but that kind of thing always triggers some alerts.

Well the have a small number of kyu ranks.. like 5.
given the amount of overlap between MA... pehaps its because his art is simple and not overloaded with a great deal of preserved art and technique.

 

[PiedmontChun]

Yes. Love those Mongolian Judo guys and I've always liked Koshi Guruma for being less contortionist on your spine than some of the hip throws like O Goshi / Uki Goshi are. I find that when someone gets a lapel grip on me, I like to circle my arm on that side around and get a high lapel grip anyway, with my arm / elbow over top theirs. From there I can crush their elbow and to setup Koshi Guruma, I will inch my lapel grip higher and higher until I can slide around the neck. Its slower and somewhat telegraphed, but yet ties them up in a way that its much harder to just duck under the arm.
If I recall, in the traditional Judo way it is taught - the feet move forward and turn in ahead of the arm wrapping up the neck, but I never made that way really work against someone who knew to block you from turning in for a throw.

 

[TSDTexan]

Thanks! I'll have to see if I can manage that seminar.

I did see in their association page (which I finally stumbled across after I posted) that they have a program of some sort for certifying existing yudansha from other arts. Not sure what that comprises, but that kind of thing always triggers some alerts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

View attachment 22055

Similar to the ranking I'm used to - NGA typically has 5 kyu ranks (excluding white).

 

[drop bear]

If your opponent ducks under your arm, you can apply a "reverse head lock". When one door is closed, another door will open.

Not how a good duck under works.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Not how a good duck under works.

How should a "good duck under" work?

 

[JR 137]

How should a "good duck under" work?

You lift their right elbow with your left hand, duck under their right arm while pulling the back of their neck with your right hand.

Done right, you’re behind the opponent, either standing or down on the mat. I’ve seen it not work many times, but I’ve never seen anyone get caught in a front headlock. Ever. Not impossible I guess, but you have to really, really mess up. Or have no idea what you’re doing. There’s no way I can see of you being bent over like that and your opponent being upright.

I’ll try to find a video.

 

[JR 137]

He says don’t do it when your opponent has tied you up. It can still be done. When an opponent has tied up, I push his elbow in, getting him to push it back up so I can go under...

You don’t have to go to the mat. Often enough you won’t. Sure pro wrestling is fake, but the principle is real...

Duck under used in competition. If you’ve got an eye for it, you’ll notice several head and arm attempts that got countered with a duck under...

No one was really in a position to get front headlocked. Maybe for a fraction of a second here and there.

Edit: I don’t like how most of them were going to one knee during it. But when your opponent is that low, you have to. The duck under is far better and easier if your opponent is practically upright. You don’t have to get that low. Especially when they’re throwing a head and arm; they’re lifting the arm up and around your head for you. You just have to recognize the setup and be quick enough with it.