Have you learned any thing??

Orange Lightning

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What you suggest.. some of it is easier said than done, no? I mean not ignoring thoughts counter to ones own opinion means accepting ones own opinion may not be the best opinion to have.. that is easy for you to accept?? Not maybe for everyone.. like just look at this forum or any other.. it is full of inability to accept.. what is the mindset that permits the thought.. I concede my opinion is maybe not the best opinion.. what need to happen to bring this about?? While it seem prudent, still it also requires an openness and humility not everyone have.. how can this be taught? I think you are insightful btw Jx

It's not so much ignoring you're own thoughts as it is exploring other possibilities. It's not dropping your own opinion. It's foraging for new data to gather as much truth as you can. Who knows. Maybe you were wrong. Or more simply, there's more to it than you currently understand. Only one way to find out, and you can only gain from it. Unless you've really understood, in depth, a different perspective from your own, you can't know for certain how right or wrong you are. Or how much you fully understand something. Additionally, in debate, it results in people arguing points that don't stick or don't apply, because they aren't addressing the real heart of the thing or why someone thinks the way the do.
For that reason, I think it's good to understand as many opinions as you can. Even if you disagree with them. Even if you initially find them flat out ridiculous. You might learn something and stilli disagree. xD

It's different when educated people argue about things they already understand. It's not an inability to accept. It's a difference in one person's gathered data making a person come to a different conclusion than another due to potentially infinite variables.

What needs to happen open someone's mind? Well...I can only think of one essential prerequisite that needs to be. Besides that, I think coming on to this way of thinking could be different for everyone. Basically, you need to believe that the knowledge or understanding you already have is not complete. Ever. Technically, I suppose it's possible to reach a point where it is complete I any specific subject, but that hypothetical point will like likely never be reached. You need to believe that you have more to learn about everything, and that it can be found anywhere. Even in unexpected places. You need to be on the hunt for truth that is yet to be found.
I heard it once like this. Think of life like a block of stone your trying to carve a statue out of. That statue is truth, and everything around it is just other stuff. You will always be scraping away more and more stone, building a more and more detailed statue. People often believe that they are currently the best version of themselves, even though they've changed in the past and are even now, changing constantly. They are the latest version of themselves, perfection and flaws both, and they will change again in the future. Trying to build a better statue.
 

Shai Hulud

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@Shai Hulud, dear M, I agree whole heartedly with your appraisal of limits, it is a great thing to know and understand.. I think it is always possible to go just one more :) And I would like to ask how you learned not to doubt your self because I think this is a common and often not spoken way among all of us? Thank you Jxxx
Aww, you still remember my name!:woot:

It wasn't much, really. It's actually very much connected to what we chatted about last time. Just the process of learning, observing yourself as you learn, and polishing it to your fit of perfection at the end of every day, and repeating this every day. :) I've always believed that at least once a week, we should always leave our comfort zones with regard to training/practice.
 

Zero

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I appreciate you taking time and I hope your work is treating you fair.. Your honest view of your self make it easy to listen and trust what you have written thank you..
Sorry, again, have been travelling and was not able to respond earlier, I tried remotely but it didn't seem to load. The conversation has moved on but I wanted to reply as I appreciate your questions (especially your last question, as this to me is the most important and fundamental of them).

You have said some thing.. My sensei told me that once I get others in my life that I care for, then their safety, and also my staying alive and sticking around to be there for them, becomes paramount. that resonate with me so much I am inclined to ask you Z are you in this situation now of having others in your life whose safety you care for? I am interested in what clicked with you in this depiction that made you change from deliberately NOT avoiding confrontation to seeing this bigger or wider picture? I mean there must have been one particular situation you would have normally reacted agressively to that you did not.. do you remember this?
Yes, now, and for some time there are others in my life I care for. Around the time of these discussions with my sensei, I had been going out with a girl that I cared for a lot. And that really brought home this point about not dragging others in, either directly by having them there during a confrontation or indirectly by having to be the one spoon feeding you in hospital or posting your bail. It was this that made things click and enabled me to see that there was a bigger picture.
To be honest, there was no one "situataion" I walked away from, there were many. But now, and for a very long time, there really are no such situations. With a different mindset and outlook, these situations just do not exist or present themselves.

You use the term worthless ego.. can you tell me a bit more about why you say your ego is worthless? I do not at all disagree.. I would like to know how you come by this description?
Now, drive and self-esteem are important in my opinion. I think it is important and right that each person should have a good sense of self-worth and even pride in themselves. You should not self-idolise but I see no harm in taking pride (to a healthy degree) in the good you have done for others or in things you have achieved. Drive is also key to pushing yourself beyound the boundaries you had perceived and thought, or were told by others, existed.

I do see these things as different to "ego" however. Many seem to need some vision or self-inflated "ideal of themselves" as a kind of crutch or support to hold themselves (emotionally, and sometimes it seems even physically) up in life and to get ahead. They are focused on thier own vision of themselves and what their place in the grand scheme of things should be - be it in the dojo, in the workplace, at the local watering hole or simply their position in society in general. They may be very good at what they do, but they do what they do simply to boost and bulster their own feelings of worth or power. There is no problem being the "best" at something (that never lasts for long in any event) but to go about thinking to yourself "I am the best and everyone else can suck my peanut butter coated waffle dog" is in my view, just a tad over the top!! You do not need this kind of attitude to do great things and it can, in my view, actually cheapen yourself and the greatness you would otherwise be doing.

And regarding when you intervened on behalf of another.. ha I like that you were not suited up like Spidey lol.. only one thing strike me and I wonder of my self.. why are other people worth intervening for? Why do we care? Why do you care? Thank you again! I am grateful to you Jxxxx
This is interesting and could probably have several psychology/sociology books/volumes devoted to it!!
One aspect is the societal or even biological wiring whereby, if one or several parts of a society go (potentially putting themselves in harms way) to assist another person faced with danger, then this is of benefit to the group as a whole and each individual of that group - as they in turn can hope/expect assistance from others that do not actually know them in their time of need. Unfortunately from what I have seen, this outlook or societal mechanism seems to have been severly eroded in the last 50(??) years or so, in some (most) of the societies I am familiar with. People, often those that could help (albeit with danger to themselves) will not get involved when someone is being picked on or even beaten up on the metro train or in the street. Even when there are several bystanders, where with simply force of number they could overpower the assailent(s), they do not get involved, the bystanders simply hope they will not become involved. I would say that of course there are numerous exceptions to this - but my issue and concern is that I think it is coming close (or we are alreadt there!) to intervention by bystanders being the exception and not the other way around.

Another view is people wanting to help others, without any thought of the societal matrix (ie help others and expect help in return) or of any overall advantage to humantiy or themselves. They are simply acting to assist another in need. The problem is, once you have loved ones and children yourself or other dependants, it can be hard not to assess the situation and think "right I can wade in there and take out that thug and help that old lady" and "crap, I need to act but there are [3] of those thugs beating on that guy and no one's helping, I could end up in the hosptial or in the ground if I step in and who's gonna feed my kids if that happens?". These assessments can be done in microseconds of course and some people are of the make-up that they will simply act to help others without thought - and maybe that is a great thing.

This is a complicated area!

We should care for others because quite frankly, why do you want to exist in a world where your fellow humans do not care for you? Who wants that as a reality? What does it hurt you to help and give assistance, be it physical, mental or finanical, to others? Your fellow human beings can impart amazing experiences and emotions on you.

I am far from a peace-hippy and have a relatively jaded, or open eyed outlook on the world, and as admitted earlier, have struggled to stay away from violence but it would be a great thing if we could stop beating on each other, I mean that on a local level and also international, policitcal and (I'll throw it in there) religious level. I have had friendships and experiences (and help) in the Middle East with Arabs, with Jews, very close friendships with Chinese and good business relations with South Americans. It seems on a one-to-one level and in times of need "man" can get on with and be great friends with any other "man". But it all breaks down on a larger scale, a damn shame.

Wowzers! Were did that come from??!!
 
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Jenna

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@Transk53, Hey thank you for your thoughts, I am grateful.. when you say However, even if it is wrong to me, if the opinion has substance then I mark it as something to delve further into and explore the nitty gritty of it, I think that is extremely prudent and best way to continue learning no matter what the circumstances.. and but I want to ask if you are able maintain objectivity even when it is a opinion about you in a personal way or about your performance? I guess perhaps it is in the way it is relayed? Which seem to happen with member Orange Lightning where comments or criticism seemed not altogether level.. a little patronising or disparaging.. I mean if an instructor criticises in order that you improve, that is one thing.. if, say there is some personality conflict, their criticism might be no less valid.. we might disregard it because we cannot see past the feeling of being personally belittled?? Does this make sense?? If so, how do you stay objective, like you say listening though also hearing the music? How? Thank you again! Jxx



@Xue Sheng, yes analysing like a scientist seems very valid and rational.. Not always successful at blending with life.. hmm.. I feel the same.. though maybe the question need to be asked.. what defines successful in blending with life? Could we be measuring it against the wrong standard? I mean like you are still here, blending in your way, so am I in mine and every one else.. It is not perfection we would aim at?? What might it mean to be not successful per se, and but successful enough at blending with life? Hmm.. I would need to think about that, I will go ask my Tao of Pooh! What do you say XS?? Thank you again my friend Jxxx



@EddieCyrax, ooh do not be sorry! I welcome your thoughts when you have them :) I like how you make friends with your fear.. In a way is it like you are getting around this with your method of comandeering I guess would that be right to say? or is it distracting? the active part of your mind? It is a very interesting way to deal with this situation that would maybe be otherwise avoided? This is a way you had figured for your self or is it prescribed in some syllabus or book maybe?

Well I want to ask you more about fear Eddie.. like in MA or SD in particular what is it we fear? Getting beat? Getting hurt? Physical damage? Perhaps we fear for our lives even?? All of these things we fear them at some stage.. I want to ask you because it seems you have done much thinking on this also your self.. I do not know if I can make this question clear enough or explain my self I will try..

Can you not want a thing to happen without FEARING that thing to happen? Like I do not want to get hurt.. is it possible for me or anybody to not want to get hurt and but not FEAR getting hurt and then avoid that as you say crippling and not useful emotion in there??? I wonder are these just the same not wanting a thing or preferring not.. and fearing that thing? How would you see it? Thank you Jxx



@Orange Lightning, yes I get what you are saying.. it is more about balance or reasonable compromise rather.. Hmm I think I understand what you are saying about educated people and gathered data and infinite variables.. though and forgive me for interjecting my own thought though it has been my experience that there are those in certain empiracal / scientific/research circles that will manipulate the data to suit their hypothesis and ignore or classify as anomalous the data that do not, rather than openly testing that hypothesis.. what is with that??

I subscribe to same view about conceding that we can never have a perfect knowledge. This for me is humility in MA (or any field) and it is not weakness rather help us to improve.. though I wonder is there another level to this.. some one can say, even believe.. I do not know every thing that is plain.. and but what they can mean is.. I do not know every thing that is plain yet still I know more than you know.. I believe that is the conceit that can pass readily for advice.. how do you see that?

And then you say you need to be on the hunt for the truth that is yet to be found.. and that has caused me interest since you have capability for deep thinking then it would be good if you can say when you write this what truth it is you are hunting? or like what did you mean specifically? It is like the statue you are carving.. when is the time you stop chiselling? Thank you again Jx



@Shai Hulud, gracious no I could not forget at all because there is an essence in your name that is differently reflected in your username and that is always fascinating to me :) thank you for your thoughts here! Oh are you saying you can have a different perfection at the end of each day?? That sounds awesome if I am understanding you correctly.. that would mean there is no pointless drive to ultimate perfection just that you have a fit of perfection different for each different day.. wow I like that a lot. And can you tell me when you leave your comfort zone is that a planned departure or is it a spontaneous happening right on the spot?? Your way of training is more than interesting and I should like to try this too.. what is the best way you have found to do this getting out of your comfort zone?? Thank you again my clever friend xxx



@Zero, You have a lot of insight tucked away I am grateful that you consider posting it here thank you x.. So you say with a different mindset and outlook these confrontational situations now just do not exist.. that is fascinating because I have wondered about this.. might there be a cause and effect like can a certain mindset increase or diminish the potential for a physical confrontation beyond just what we do our selves like project some thing to others or out to the situation / environment / dojo / workplace whatever? Is interesting..

I think in your humility there is strength it is like I see it to put what you have called worthless ego in the crucible and refine like trial by fire I think is the term.. maybe when impurities are burned away what is left is refined and toughened and sharpened and thus need not strike as hard to have same effect.. thank you for sharing this.. there are ripples about you that reach others..

Then maybe like you say there is some thing in us that seek to save or help another even though we understand we will be at risk.. then what happen? Ego intervene?? I must protect me even though if we acted as community we protect each other and we are all the better off and safer?? Also there is another emotional outcome after we have refused to offer our assistance (or have helped our family at anothers expense) .. we have guilt or regret, yes? ego must intervene here to cover its worthless butt and say.. ah yes and but *I* would have been damaged or *my* family would have been at risk (which is nevertheless about *I* being deprived of family).. it is like the connivances of ego assuages some thing deeper and more steadfast than even itself??

I do not know about peace hippies.. perhaps there is a right place for that.. perhaps even in each of us.. perhaps too we do MA so we need not defer to being peace hippies if it is what is needed?? Yet needed must be specified.. what is the right need? why is it we do MA in this environment.. to protect our selves.. our possessions (property, family as possessions or needs).. it seem natural I cannot argue.. I am just wondering.. we can use it for this good you suggest yes? like you have used it beyond just for you.. for others that cannot stand up to some one.. I have done same.. others also.. why? What is it about? We train juniors likewise that they can keep their selves safe.. why do we care? All of the reasons you mention.. some thing deeper too.. you have alluded to it.. maybe this is where the lesson is.. maybe this is the unhiding.. maybe this is where Wowzers where did that come from actually came from? :)

I learn a lot from this thank you and can I share that peanut butter coated waffle dog I imagine it to be some thing delicious!! :) Jxx
 

Orange Lightning

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@Jenna
yes I get what you are saying.. it is more about balance or reasonable compromise rather.. Hmm I think I understand what you are saying about educated people and gathered data and infinite variables.. though and forgive me for interjecting my own thought though it has been my experience that there are those in certain empiracal / scientific/research circles that will manipulate the data to suit their hypothesis and ignore or classify as anomalous the data that do not, rather than openly testing that hypothesis.. what is with that??

I subscribe to same view about conceding that we can never have a perfect knowledge. This for me is humility in MA (or any field) and it is not weakness rather help us to improve.. though I wonder is there another level to this.. some one can say, even believe.. I do not know every thing that is plain.. and but what they can mean is.. I do not know every thing that is plain yet still I know more than you know.. I believe that is the conceit that can pass readily for advice.. how do you see that?

And then you say you need to be on the hunt for the truth that is yet to be found.. and that has caused me interest since you have capability for deep thinking then it would be good if you can say when you write this what truth it is you are hunting? or like what did you mean specifically? It is like the statue you are carving.. when is the time you stop chiselling? Thank you again Jx

- There is a term for that. It's called confirmation bias. Quite a common form of bias. Probably one of the easiest ones to have. It's even found in professional scientists and experts. It's an easy thing to miss.
Think about it like this. Let's say you want to test a hypothesis. So you set up an experiment to see if you were right in any capacity. The experiment results in equal parts positive and negative data. Are you concerned that you're hypothesis wasn't consistently correct or are you just amped that, on some level, you were on to something? Most people will follow that thread, most of the time. Forgetting about other possibilities and the rest of the data and possible implications to see if the truth they wanted exists. If they get to the end and find that it's wrong completely, only then will they go back and examine data and notice details they didn't consider before. At that point, they do another experiment.
Another good example of why it's so important to understand other points of view. :)

- I don't think I understand the question you're asking with this second paragraph. Could you rephrase?

-I'm looking for any truth I can find on any matter I can. When I say truth, I mean hard facts. Inarguable things around which opinions can be made. Outside of things that are just mathematical, I try to find bit of truth in things that are everyday, but are more complicated than their face value. Like music. Movies. People. Conversation. Right up to and including, however cliche, the meaning of life. xD Etc. Things that may seem or can be very simple or very complex. Martial arts is one of those things that is.....subjective. Complicated. Seems simple in some ways, but in it's entirety, is incredibly complicated. Martial arts in particular is so complicated that even these "hard facts" are nuanced, flexible, or difficult to define. And when people fight, all that is condensed into a single moment, and spread back out when the contenders push back apart. So it makes these truths even harder to perceive. Additionally, because sit all comes down to a single moment, we could each have all the knowledge possible on martial arts and still it would be subjective, because we would choose different solutions. But that isn't to say that these facts don't exists. Only that we'll choose to use them differently.
The statue is never finished. There is always more to find. More to think about. More to learn and experience and be. There will likely come times when you think you've totally figured something out, only to find another thread you need to follow. I've been there. :D
 

Flatfish

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@Flatfish, hey it is good to read our comment and encouraging to hear you have made these discoveries of your self.. so your competitiveness has been uncovered through your MA, yes? And would you be able to say are things better now for you since you have revealed your competitive side? Thank you, Jx

@Jenna Sorry for the late response. I actually had to think about this for a while. I would say that some other positive things have come out of this, yes.

First off directly MA related I would say it has made a great difference in how I approach sparring. I used to be just in "survival mode", i.e. hang in there and get it over with (that whole fear thing again). Now I tend to be less intimidated, more thoughtful and analytic and have realized that even the toughest opponents in my dojang leave openings to exploit (sometimes). So instead of just accepting that I will get my rear end handed to me like I did previously, I will now look to do something against it and it seems to be working quite well.

I have noticed changes at work as well. I constantly have to compete for money externally to be able to do my work (grants). I tended to be quite demoralized when that did not work out too well and have over the last few months found fresh energy to stay in the game. I have also noticed I stand up for myself more during internal struggles.

In addition to MA I have started to challenge myself physically more in other complementary areas as well. Someone else mentioned "mastering your body" earlier in this thread and that sums up perfectly how I have been feeling about my training. I would say that if you succeed there little by little, step by step, it is bound to transfer into other areas of your life.
 

Xue Sheng

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@Xue Sheng, yes analysing like a scientist seems very valid and rational.. Not always successful at blending with life.. hmm.. I feel the same.. though maybe the question need to be asked.. what defines successful in blending with life? Could we be measuring it against the wrong standard? I mean like you are still here, blending in your way, so am I in mine and every one else.. It is not perfection we would aim at?? What might it mean to be not successful per se, and but successful enough at blending with life? Hmm.. I would need to think about that, I will go ask my Tao of Pooh! What do you say XS?? Thank you again my friend Jxxx

Perfection...no....

From Taoism 101: Introduction to the Tao

People expect and think that the goal of life is perfection its not you should desire for being good at something and to embrace the various little imperfections that end up actually being defining characteristics of each of us. The little bits of imperfection we each have are elements of chaos that give each person individuality and distinction. Without our little flaws we wouldnt be individuals at all! Taoism teaches us how to accept both the best and worse parts of our life.
 

Transk53

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Hey thank you for your thoughts, I am grateful.. when you say However, even if it is wrong to me, if the opinion has substance then I mark it as something to delve further into and explore the nitty gritty of it, I think that is extremely prudent and best way to continue learning no matter what the circumstances.. and but I want to ask if you are able maintain objectivity even when it is a opinion about you in a personal way or about your performance? I guess perhaps it is in the way it is relayed? Which seem to happen with member Orange Lightning where comments or criticism seemed not altogether level.. a little patronising or disparaging.. I mean if an instructor criticises in order that you improve, that is one thing.. if, say there is some personality conflict, their criticism might be no less valid.. we might disregard it because we cannot see past the feeling of being personally belittled?? Does this make sense?? If so, how do you stay objective, like you say listening though also hearing the music? How? Thank you again!

Because I hear the music, a construct of of noise that only I can decipher and that of those that can hear, those that are on the the spectrum. It is a wonderful thing that I simply cannot enunciate. It is a different world that I walk, but one that is no different than the norm, you just have to hear the music. When you hear the song, you understand the music, when the music resides, the patterns become clear. In a simplistic view, life is music :)
 
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Jenna

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@Orange Lightning, regarding MA facts and the case for empirical proofs maybe there is a further caveat too.. what is empirically proven for one martial artist cannot be taken as authority by another.. is that true or not do you think??

I am just asking as I have not read your empirical proofs -though forgive me I have probably missed them elsewhere? I wonder what proofs of your own you discovered and why,it seems, you feel it is true what has been told to you that your own empirical proofs are not as worthy as those of supposedly educated or expert others in MA? Thank you Jx


@Flatfish, thank you for elaborating on how you do things differently since discovering your MA on the mats and off! I have heard others also speak of increased ability to stand up in non fight situations.. how do you think this works? I mean it is not as if you are going to hit some one if you are having to deal with work struggles? It is very encouraging to hear the beneficial impact your MA has had to your own self-discovery! Thank yo ufor sharing Jx


@Transk53, you put this poetically.. I do not know if you are on any level being literal.. like this sound not too far from how someone who is synesthesic will relate their experience, yes? I understand how you speak of understanding a piece of music though I am unclear on how this analogy translates into dealing with others or the world? can anyone use this way of understanding?? If you could explain I would be grateful.. thank you, Jx
 

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@Jenna

No of course I am not going to hit someone at work (as tempting as that may sometimes be :) )

I just think that if you go up against someone who is trying to kick you in the face (even when it's friendly sparring) it puts verbal arguments in a different perspective, i.e. you will not feel quite as uncomfortable in a verbal situation as in a physical situation.
 

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It's not so much ignoring you're own thoughts as it is exploring other possibilities. It's not dropping your own opinion. It's foraging for new data to gather as much truth as you can. Who knows. Maybe you were wrong. Or more simply, there's more to it than you currently understand. Only one way to find out, and you can only gain from it. Unless you've really understood, in depth, a different perspective from your own, you can't know for certain how right or wrong you are. Or how much you fully understand something. Additionally, in debate, it results in people arguing points that don't stick or don't apply, because they aren't addressing the real heart of the thing or why someone thinks the way the do.
For that reason, I think it's good to understand as many opinions as you can. Even if you disagree with them. Even if you initially find them flat out ridiculous. You might learn something and stilli disagree. xD

It's different when educated people argue about things they already understand. It's not an inability to accept. It's a difference in one person's gathered data making a person come to a different conclusion than another due to potentially infinite variables.

What needs to happen open someone's mind? Well...I can only think of one essential prerequisite that needs to be. Besides that, I think coming on to this way of thinking could be different for everyone. Basically, you need to believe that the knowledge or understanding you already have is not complete. Ever. Technically, I suppose it's possible to reach a point where it is complete I any specific subject, but that hypothetical point will like likely never be reached. You need to believe that you have more to learn about everything, and that it can be found anywhere. Even in unexpected places. You need to be on the hunt for truth that is yet to be found.
I heard it once like this. Think of life like a block of stone your trying to carve a statue out of. That statue is truth, and everything around it is just other stuff. You will always be scraping away more and more stone, building a more and more detailed statue. People often believe that they are currently the best version of themselves, even though they've changed in the past and are even now, changing constantly. They are the latest version of themselves, perfection and flaws both, and they will change again in the future. Trying to build a better statue.

This is perhaps one of the most profound and intelligent posts I've read on this forum. I'd like to like it a few hundred more times, but I'm sadly unable to do so. It encompasses the most important aspect of anyone's training or discussion of martial arts, and identifies the traps that I see time and time again, which even here on MT so many threads fall into. It really doesn't deserve to get buried and lost!

In any case, quoted for truth.

That's humility -- open mindedness, and the realization of how little you know and the value of exploring and entertaining a wide diversity of disciplines, principles, methods, and approaches in order to come to a more complete, more objective understanding. Anything short of that -- assuming that you simply "know what you need to" and making broad, dismissive judgments about things -- so common in the discussion of martial arts, only indicates delusion and narrow mindedness. Essentially, it indicates that you're unwilling to search for a more complete understanding, and that you'd rather just blindly believe that the world fits neatly into your very narrow and limited framework. There's not a whole lot of potential to grow with that outlook, frankly, but there is a whole lot of potential to be willfully wrong about everything and remain that way.

Productive criticism is useful. It expresses concern, but nonetheless explores a premise with an open mind and tries to identify shortcomings as well as any potential.

Dismissive criticism serves very little use, and for the most part stifles productive inquiry. It serves to propagate a view of "what we want the world to be" far more than it serves to cultivate a view of "what the world actually is." Unfortunately, it seems to be the more common approach.
 
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Jenna

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Dismissive criticism serves very little use, and for the most part stifles productive inquiry. It serves to propagate a view of "what we want the world to be" far more than it serves to cultivate a view of "what the world actually is." Unfortunately, it seems to be the more common approach.
Why do you think we feel certain criticism of our self is dismissive? it is how we perceive the intent of the giver? I would be interested if you could say how do you your self differentiate constructive from dismissive criticism? thank you, Jx
 
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Jenna

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@Jenna

No of course I am not going to hit someone at work (as tempting as that may sometimes be :) )

I just think that if you go up against someone who is trying to kick you in the face (even when it's friendly sparring) it puts verbal arguments in a different perspective, i.e. you will not feel quite as uncomfortable in a verbal situation as in a physical situation.
That is interesting.. so you are saying because we feel we can handle, to a greater or lesser extent, a physical confrontation, then we think a verbal situation by comparison is a walk in the park, yes??

I am interested Flatfish to know if there is any aspect of feeling confident in this workplace verbal situation that relies on us imagining that we could put our argumentative workplace colleague/boss on their back if we had to? even though we know that is unlikely? or maybe that is just me lols.. :D thank you again, Jxx
 

Zero

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I learn a lot from this thank you and can I share that peanut butter coated waffle dog I imagine it to be some thing delicious!! :) Jxx
If you are ever in the UK/London we can share that peanut butter coated waffle dog. To be honest, I almost chocked on my coffee when I read your reply! But I have been thinking and you know what, maybe that waffle dog could be damn tasty!
peace!
And thanks for the great posts, this is a really great thread and the responses from people have been illuminating.
 
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Jenna

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If you are ever in the UK/London we can share that peanut butter coated waffle dog. To be honest, I almost chocked on my coffee when I read your reply! But I have been thinking and you know what, maybe that waffle dog could be damn tasty!
peace!
And thanks for the great posts, this is a really great thread and the responses from people have been illuminating.
I never cease to be amazed at the responses people give.. there is so much to be shared and learned that I can only apologise if this thread is all over the place or about nothing in particular it is because everybody have their own story and experiences and each can teach the other.. thank you for your inputs! I am happy to hear whichever things you have learned that can help some one else.. Oh haha NW1 London is my home! I have just not been back for a number of years now :) where on earth are you eating these things?? :D Jxxx
 

Zero

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I never cease to be amazed at the responses people give.. there is so much to be shared and learned that I can only apologise if this thread is all over the place or about nothing in particular it is because everybody have their own story and experiences and each can teach the other.. thank you for your inputs! I am happy to hear whichever things you have learned that can help some one else.. Oh haha NW1 London is my home! I have just not been back for a number of years now :) where on earth are you eating these things?? :D Jxxx
Ha! Crazy! So you lived by the Zoo! I'm living in SE but work in Mayfair, there's a waffle outlet by Bond Street (Pure Waffle) that do the waffle dog action. They don't have this down to a perfection though.

The peanut condiment was my idea but am sure in the States they have been dipping their dogs in peanut butter for years! I used to dunk my sausages in the peanut tub (I'm talking literally here, not on some metaphorical level, ok!) as a kid and it drove my mum bonkers.

I'm originally from NZ and it's funny as so much of NZ is based on old school England but then many aspects of US food, etc have worked their way in also. The standard fare at the food stands in the fun fairs in NZ when I was a kid was the corn dog. Here at the UK fairs, festivals etc it's just the plain hot dog in a bun mainly. I so miss those corn dogs (!!) dunked in ketchup, but they are no where near as popular here!
 

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That is interesting.. so you are saying because we feel we can handle, to a greater or lesser extent, a physical confrontation, then we think a verbal situation by comparison is a walk in the park, yes??

I am interested Flatfish to know if there is any aspect of feeling confident in this workplace verbal situation that relies on us imagining that we could put our argumentative workplace colleague/boss on their back if we had to? even though we know that is unlikely? or maybe that is just me lols.. :D thank you again, Jxx


The first part yes, the second part definitely a no. It just seems work squabbles are not as important as someone trying to "hurt" you physically.
 

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Why do you think we feel certain criticism of our self is dismissive? it is how we perceive the intent of the giver? I would be interested if you could say how do you your self differentiate constructive from dismissive criticism? thank you, Jx

I was referring to how we pass judgement and criticism ourselves (not other people criticizing us). Actually, I should have used the word skepticism, perhaps.
 

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@Balrog, your MA has taught you some valuable skills beyond the mats thank you for sharing.. I want to ask you few things.. can you have respect for some one when they have none for you? And how can we aspire to mastery when like you say, we know there is always some thing new to learn? Thank you :) Jx
Thank you. In terms of respect, it's supposed to be a two-way street. Sometimes, though, it isn't. I know a couple of people where I "bow to the belt". I respect their technical skills, but as far as them as a person, not so much.

As far as mastery, I am a Master Instructor. To me, a big part of that means that I've gotten really good at being a student. We're all students. If we stop learning, we start to stagnate and die. It all ties into the concept that it's not the destination, it's the journey that's important.
 
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Jenna

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@Zero See it is true about all the awesome stuff people are like.. I would not even have dreamt of a sausage related learning here lol.. And you work in Mayfair and live in SE and so that suggests you are possibly *not* the ambassador.. which is a pity because I could have totally helped you eat your Ferrero haha.. And NZ always seemed like the idyll to me though that was probably based more on 1990s Michael Palin than any thing real life.. or maybe every one takes a bungee jump before work? :D Jx


@Flatfish ok I understand how you mean.. Can you say, how do you think this could help when trying to deal with someone at work that was bullying? I mean would a feeling of confidence from practicing MA help us to deal differently than if we had not? thank you, Jx


I was referring to how we pass judgement and criticism ourselves (not other people criticizing us). Actually, I should have used the word skepticism, perhaps.
I have heard it reasoned that self-criticism or skepticism keeps a person sharper or stifles either pride or complacency.. would you say there is no place for this kind of thinking? thank you Jx


As far as mastery, I am a Master Instructor. To me, a big part of that means that I've gotten really good at being a student. We're all students. If we stop learning, we start to stagnate and die. It all ties into the concept that it's not the destination, it's the journey that's important.
I like how you word that.. I think there is a lot implied in how you say you have gotten really good at being a student.. It is like maybe there is a certain student mindset that possibly not all students have?? I imagine there is more to being a student, and a good one, than just a superficial word.. what do you think makes you good at being a student can I ask? Thank you again, Jxx
 

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