hatsumi's skill?

[Enson]

i'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen or has ever heard of hatsumi using the ninjutsu training he has recieved? i think ralph severe said that hatsumi has no fighting experience... if that is the case how do you know your technique is going to work... i saw hayes doing a bujikan move that he doesn't use anymore... i think he said he went out and tried to use what he had learned. i guess he found that its not all effective. maybe even ralph changed some things.

not to cause any flame wars but i know hatsumi is worshipped beyone mearsure and it would be nice to know that he is practicing a tried art. i have thought of joining hayes because i know his stuff is tested... but is hatsumi's? i know that he was the original source for ninjutsu but now there are so many others that have branched off from him that seem to have so much more skill.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Takamatsu sensei tested it, and Hatsumi sensei's students are testing it constantly around the world. Who cares if Hatsumi sensei doesn't/hasn't?

I've heard some rumors that people showed up at Hatsumi sensei's early seminars in the Western world and were dealt with accordingly, but like I said that's nothing more but rumours.

If you're too eager to pick and choose between techniques, chances are you don't realize what Hatsumi sensei is trying to put across. I for one realize that there are things I cannot realize at this point, but I'm sure as hell not going to admit defeat just because of that.

 

[Enson]

what record is there of takamatsu using it. i know of the hearsay but what documentation is there?

who cares if hatsumi doesn't? well i should hope the practicioners do. if not they are studying an art that they have never seen used by their sensei.

about the practicioners using it everyday...? well good... i hope so.

 

[Cryozombie]

what record is there of takamatsu using it. i know of the hearsay but what documentation is there?

While I personally dont have the article or the police report I have to believe they would be obtainable to someone who read japanese...

he was attacked by a gang of youths, one of whom was armed with a sword. He defeated them all, one after another, but when the police arrived, Takamatsu was the one who was arrested! Only when it was over did he realize that he had beaten 60 people all by himself. His grandfather Toda came to bail him out of the Kobe Kiryubashi police station, and the event was written up by the Kobe newspaper as "13 Year Old Judo Expert Easily Flung Away 60 Gangsters."

 

[heretic888]

i'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen or has ever heard of hatsumi using the ninjutsu training he has recieved? i think ralph severe said that hatsumi has no fighting experience... if that is the case how do you know your technique is going to work... i saw hayes doing a bujikan move that he doesn't use anymore... i think he said he went out and tried to use what he had learned. i guess he found that its not all effective. maybe even ralph changed some things.

not to cause any flame wars but i know hatsumi is worshipped beyone mearsure and it would be nice to know that he is practicing a tried art. i have thought of joining hayes because i know his stuff is tested... but is hatsumi's? i know that he was the original source for ninjutsu but now there are so many others that have branched off from him that seem to have so much more skill.

The idea that Hatsumi-soke has no fighting experience is odd, given his background in judo.

I also fail to see how Hayes' toshindo is more "tested" than budo taijutsu.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Who cares if Hatsumi sensei never used it himself? This art wouldn't have survived for this long if it weren't adequate for the real world.

And arts with lots of high and/or flying kicks wouldn't have lasted long during the Sengoku Jidai either...

 

[Enson]

The idea that Hatsumi-soke has no fighting experience is odd, given his background in judo.

I also fail to see how Hayes' toshindo is more "tested" than budo taijutsu.

1) no fighting experience using "ninjutsu". and sparring is totally different then actual fighting experience. or do you think its the same? sparring is just a glorified game of tag.
2) that might be your problem... you fail to see. have you ever seen toshindo in action?

 

[Enson]

Who cares if Hatsumi sensei never used it himself? This art wouldn't have survived for this long if it weren't adequate for the real world.

And arts with lots of high and/or flying kicks wouldn't have lasted long during the Sengoku Jidai either...

you should care... how can you claim and effective art if your sensei never has once really used it besides on his uke? and for the rest of the post...

16century Japan. SENGOKU JIDAI. Sengokujidai means War Period in Japanese

you don't think high kicks are effective... wouldn't that be speculation?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

1) no fighting experience using "ninjutsu". and sparring is totally different then actual fighting experience. or do you think its the same? sparring is just a glorified game of tag.

Says the guy who just brought up the usage of RTMS in NHB contests.

how can you claim and effective art if your sensei never has once really used it besides on his uke?

Is there something physically wrong with your eyes or did you intentionally ignore what I wrote earlier in this thread?

you don't think high kicks are effective... wouldn't that be speculation?

Nope. High kicks aren't effective against armed people, skilled grapplers, or if you or your opponent are wearing armour.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Enson, I think you have an agenda.

 

[Enson]

why such hostility?... i'm just trying to find answers. why would i want to join the bujinkan under a guy who has never once tested what he knows? why would i choose to learn under hatsumi than a guy like hayes who actually went out to test it and hone it? just some questions.

no one here besides technopunk as tried to answer my questions with answers better than "who cares?" if you think a simple question about your teacher is an agenda...

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

why such hostility?... i'm just trying to find answers. why would i want to join the bujinkan under a guy who has never once tested what he knows?

Even if Hatsumi sensei had no combat experience whatsoever, you're not seriously suggesting you could become a personal student of his these days, do you? What with your dismay for and/or lack of understanding of Japanese culture and all...

why would i choose to learn under hatsumi than a guy like hayes who actually went out to test it and hone it?

Ooookay, so there are no other people with a background in the Bujinkan who has been involved in real life confrontations?

 

[Enson]

Even if Hatsumi sensei had no combat experience whatsoever, you're not seriously suggesting you could become a personal student of his these days, do you? What with your dismay for and/or lack of understanding of Japanese culture and all...

is that ment to insult or offend me? okay.

Ooookay, so there are no other people with a background in the Bujinkan who has been involved in real life confrontations

i don't know maybe that would be a good start for another thread.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Yes, it's folly to believe Hatsumi sensei is still accepting personal students.

And once again - if Takamatsu sensei tested it, and Hatsumi sensei's students are testing it all ofer the world around the clock, who cares if Hatsumi sensei hasn't done it a whole lot?

Why don't you drop Dean an e-mail or something?

http://www.bujinkan.hr/en/teachers/dean/dean.htm

 

[Don Roley]

i'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen or has ever heard of hatsumi using the ninjutsu training he has recieved? i think ralph severe said that hatsumi has no fighting experience... if that is the case how do you know your technique is going to work...

I have to agree with Nimravus about you having an agenda.

But to answer your question- I have had numerous people thank my teacher, Hiroshi Nagase, for teaching them things they said later saved them in a fight. As the translator, I am the guy in the middle of the after action report as Nagase tries to figure out what worked and how the real fights went down.

These incidents lead me to beleive that not only that the techniques work, but the manner in which they are taught are effective as well. I recall that babe Ruth was supposably a terrible coach, despite being perhaps the greatest baseball player of his time. But many people who have trained with my teacher have to do dangerous things and according to them, what they learned with my teacher and the Bujinkan saved them when it was needed.

This does not mean that I am assured that I will do well should there be violence tommorow. Event he best teacher has bad students. But I can see that there is the potential.

BTW- Nimravus, will I see you at my teacher's training on Thursday?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I'll see if I can make it there at the time.

 

[Cryozombie]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Technopunk
-MT Moderator-

 

[RRouuselot]

1) i'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen or has ever heard of hatsumi using the ninjutsu training he has recieved? i think ralph severe said that hatsumi has no fighting experience... if that is the case how do you know your technique is going to work... i saw hayes doing a bujikan move that he doesn't use anymore... i think he said he went out and tried to use what he had learned. i guess he found that its not all effective. maybe even ralph changed some things.

2) not to cause any flame wars but i know hatsumi is worshipped beyone mearsure and it would be nice to know that he is practicing a tried art. 3) i have thought of joining hayes because i know his stuff is tested... but is hatsumi's? i know that he was the original source for ninjutsu but now there are so many others that have branched off from him that seem to have so much more skill.

1) Funny you should ask…….I was wondering the same thing about you teacher Rick Tew……
2) Oh no….not when you word your question like that….
3) So are you still studying by video or are you actually training in person with anyone? (serious question, not intended to be an insult)

 

[Enson]

1) Funny you should ask…….I was wondering the same thing about you teacher Rick Tew……
2) Oh no….not when you word your question like that….
3) So are you still studying by video or are you actually training in person with anyone? (serious question, not intended to be an insult)

1) i thought i answered that already... then again you continue to ask the same question. maybe you should take me off the ignore list so you can see my answers.
2)hmm?
3)actually i do multiple ways of study... with rtms i do hsp/rtms club/seminars. and i have also been looking into hayes' stuff.

are these the only answers i'm going to get? 1) you are not japanese so you can't understand hatsumi's skill" 2) "how about you and yours" 3) my personal favorite "who cares?"

all good answers... ha ha ha! you can say my agenda is to find the truth.

 

[RRouuselot]

A) 1) i thought i answered that already... then again you continue to ask the same question. maybe you should take me off the ignore list so you can see my answers.
2)hmm?
3)actually i do multiple ways of study... with rtms i do hsp/rtms club/seminars. and i have also been looking into hayes' stuff.

A) Well, to date, most folks reading our threads think you haven't really answered any of my questions.........and believe me you are not on my ignore list. In fact I have started to follow your posts much closer now that I am getting to understand more about you.