Hard block and parrying.

[muayThaiPerson]

which one do you think is more effective and practical? I believe that a hard block is much more practical than parrying is a lot more useful. Why?Parrying requires speed and reaction time. Striking is all about timing. If you miss a parry then you are open to another attack. hard blocks on the other hand will leave you less vulnerable to openings and will protect you against rushes

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
which one do you think is more effective and practical?

Parrying, if I understand that term to mean a non-direct contact made that guides an incoming technique away from its target rather than smashing into it and directly opposing the incoming force.

I believe that a hard block is much more practical than parrying is a lot more useful. Why?Parrying requires speed and reaction time. Striking is all about timing. If you miss a parry then you are open to another attack.

If you miss any kind of block, you are open to another attack... Then, of course, there is the issue of combinations and how to deal with defensive deflection of multiple techniques...

hard blocks on the other hand will leave you less vulnerable to openings and will protect you against rushes

How so? How do "hard blocks" necessarily protect you any better than a "parry?"

Both require correct timing to execute (pooch the timing, you get hit). Both require proper body mechanics to execute (move only partially correctly, you still get hit). The only real difference lies in the effect of the block - one causes a deflecting action, resulting in a rerouting of the incoming attack and a gradual slowdown of the attack resulting in a slower reaction and recovery rate for the attacker, while the other causes an abrupt halt in the incoming attack, potentially causing damage to the striking limb but providing an immediate opportunity to reroute the power and energy into an additional attack with another part of the body.

Please clarify your position... Good topic.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[yilisifu]

I have to agree with Yiliquan 1. Both parries and hard blocks require skill to apply effectively. A glitch in either one will leave you open to a second attack.

 

[Robbo]

You should also have a option for both listed on the poll.

Although some arts teach to block a certain way, the truth is that depending on the experiance and the situation both types of blocks can be equally effective albeit with different results.

Rob

 

[Yari]

If I look at hard block contra parry, which in this case I take as something "soft". I'd go for "soft".

Hard block for me is force to force. This means that you have a certain extened point to reach, typically in a direct line.

I work alot with redirecting, so parry is alot more me.

/Yari

 

[theletch1]

I can't say that I prefer either one more. I have a tendency to let the situation dictate which block I will use. We have several techniques in my kwoon that incorporates both types when dealing with a combination. I have fairly boney forearms so a "hard" block for me is a fairly punishing block to my attacker. My hand speed has increased a good bit since beginning my training so parry blocks are pretty good for me as well. I can't speak for anyone but myself but they both have a very valuable place in my arsenal.

respecfully,
theletch1:asian:

 

[tarabos]

both have advantages....

a hard or striking block can cause major damage to a limb, hence attacking the weapon.

a parry however will usually leave you more prone to counterattack and is also quicker usually than a striking block. i believe a parry takes less reaction time than a striking block. therefore your conterattack would be a bit quicker.

many disciplines that teach a striking block see that particular move evolve so to speak into the parry. in EPAK if you were to do a technique that in its ideal phase called for a striking block and you threw a quicker parry instead, one way of defining that would be "shorthand." you adapt to the attack and use the most practical defense available basically.

if you looked at it in terms of evolving...or at least proficiency...i would say that the slip, which i would include in the poll myself, is the most ideal defense usually, but is not always the easiest thing to do.

i don't believe you can put any of these....the slip, parry or striking block....above the other two. they all have their place, and all have their strenghts and weaknesses. and some people excell at different techniques. some are great at throwing those hard blocks...and can throw them quick. they are just a more natural reaction to them. whereas others, such as boxers will be more inclined to slip or parry in the ideal.

 

[Cruentus]

I like both! I do both, but I usually parry more often then hard block.

 

[sweeper]

basicly I structure my methods of deffence in a gradation from counter attack to block, usualy it goes attack (beat them to it), interception (as an attack to the limb) pary or slip and counter, block. In that order. But some things are harder to black and some harder to pary.. I wouldn't want to block a side kick because you are still gona go flying, yet it's alot harder to pary a commited roundkick than it is to block it. Personaly I think using a block can get you in trouble when you are dealing with upper body attacks, I have seen alot of people get stuck blocking because their opponant doesn't let up, alsoblocking things like elbow shots and bare knuckle blows inproperly can get your arm injured. So basicly I think you have to stack your deffencive options, parying and blocking are diffrent tools both worth understanding, whatever is most efficient and most agressive or dammaging to your opponant at the timeIs what I would argue for.

 

[Elfan]

Arn't there other ways to block as well beyond just "hard blocking" and "parying"?

 

[theletch1]

Arn't there other ways to block as well beyond just "hard blocking" and "parying"?

Sure there are but I think most of them can fall into these two very general catagories. Any block that stops forward momentum of the attack is a "hard" block, any block that redirects the attackers energy would be a "parry". I may be wrong in that but that's my take on it.

respectfully,
theletch1:asian:

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by theletch1
Sure there are but I think most of them can fall into these two very general catagories. Any block that stops forward momentum of the attack is a "hard" block, any block that redirects the attackers energy would be a "parry". I may be wrong in that but that's my take on it.

respectfully,
theletch1:asian:

This if from Ed Parker's Infinite Insights into Kenpo vol 3 but there is nothing kenpo specific about it in my opinoin.

p. 5

"When executing a block, physical contact can occur: (1) when force meets force, (2) when force goes with force, (3) when force meets a neutral force, or (4) when a neutral force meets a neutral force. Because of these methods of contact, blocks need to be defind. When contact is made in case #1 it is called a striking block (a term used to escibe this particular block. It does not neccesarily inflict pain.) In case #2 a parrying block, in case #3 a positional block (or check) (if you are motionless) or ablocking strike (if you initiate the action)... In case #4, it would be reffered to as a pinning block (or check)."

In summary, 4 ways to block:

- striking
- parrying
- pinning
- positional

 

[theletch1]

In summary, 4 ways to block:

Thanks, Elfan, for adding to my knowledge base. As I've said before I still consider myself new to the arts. 19 months of consistent training has increased my knowledge of techniques, but I still have a lot of learning to do that doesn't get explained in a class.

Respectfully,
theletch1:asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

For me it depends where I end up as the situation unfolds.

If I end up on the inside, I would prefer to block heavily to the inside of his forearms, there by keeping him at a distance where I am less likely to be hit and more likely to be able to do damage.

If I am on the outside, I would prefer to parry, as this will cause him to come to me(if his strike is commited). Then I can utilise positional checks, and pinning checks, whilst I open a can of whooparse.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by theletch1
Thanks, Elfan, for adding to my knowledge base. As I've said before I still consider myself new to the arts. 19 months of consistent training has increased my knowledge of techniques, but I still have a lot of learning to do that doesn't get explained in a class.

Respectfully,
theletch1:asian:

Glad I could help.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
which one do you think is more effective and practical? I believe that a hard block is much more practical than parrying is a lot more useful. Why?Parrying requires speed and reaction time. Striking is all about timing. If you miss a parry then you are open to another attack. hard blocks on the other hand will leave you less vulnerable to openings and will protect you against rushes

Do you how many people have broken their hands/arms in blocking? Good luck.

 

[Zepp]

Hard, sweeping blocks that knock an opponents arm or leg off to the side are my preference. It almost always give you an opening and in the case of kicks, can affect their balance.

Parrying by slighty redirecting a blow is what I end up doing most of the time, just because its a faster defense.

Just putting your arms or shin in the way of a strike and absorbing the blow there is a last resort. That's the way I would think people most often get broken hands or arms.

Doesn't Wing Chun teach techniques that are about redirecting your opponent's momentum back at them? If you've got the skill to make those techniques work, that'd probably be the most effective.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Do you how many people have broken their hands/arms in blocking? Good luck.

They broke their hands/arms only because of two things -

Wrong technique for the wrong situation.

Improper conditioning or improper execution of the block.

Some folks just don't know...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Most people who fight in the streets just punch. They usually keep punching non stop and some grabbing is involved. Rarely have i seen kicks. and when i do, they are cheap toe kicks with the shoe.

Punching, when its non stop, is very hard to parry. Given that theres a lot of movement involved compared to hard block. Theoretically, parrying will get the opponent open to a counterattack. Thats true if they are going 70%(something like that). But in reality, a hard block will give you the advantage.

For example, the way we block a hook in muay thai, our arm blocks the side of our head almost completely. The hand near the back of the head and the elbow is pointing forward.....If an individual hooks, then they will definatly be open to an elbow to the face. Once he hooks, hes on the outside, thus gives you the advantage. If you have experience in fighting, then you will understand what i mean.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Most people who fight in the streets just punch. They usually keep punching non stop and some grabbing is involved. Rarely have i seen kicks. and when i do, they are cheap toe kicks with the shoe.

Punching, when its non stop, is very hard to parry. Given that theres a lot of movement involved compared to hard block. Theoretically, parrying will get the opponent open to a counterattack. Thats true if they are going 70%(something like that). But in reality, a hard block will give you the advantage.

For example, the way we block a hook in muay thai, our arm blocks the side of our head almost completely. The hand near the back of the head and the elbow is pointing forward.....If an individual hooks, then they will definatly be open to an elbow to the face. Once he hooks, hes on the outside, thus gives you the advantage. If you have experience in fighting, then you will understand what i mean.

And if you have experience with fighting (I'm not suggesting you go out and get some street experience), you'd know you'd fight all kinds of enemies. Not everyone is some thug who just swings around randomly.

Like the people said, there are times for blocking, and times for parrying. A good example is look at Roy Jr. When he's inside, weaving around, he's blocking and covering his head. When he's outside, he sometimes likes to just slip or just smack it away.

Again, it depends on the situation. If you just rely on blocks, and face a VERY FAST and VERY SMART opponent... Blocks need to work with movement (body motion and footwork) and with parries. Cause if you block one area of the body, a smart and quick fighter will start attacking another part. Cover your face, and the guy works your stomach. Unless you were experienced, very fast, and have perception skills beyond our understanding, you're going to be in deep trouble. Because a street fight isn't like a ring fight. A street fight lasts 30 seconds or less, and it's like an all-out burst most of the time. And the attacker always has the advantage over a passive, blocker-type fighter in a no-rule street fight. I remember seeing a fight with de la Hoya who did the same thing. When the guy covered his face, he threw an uppercut and started working the midsection. When the guy kinda leaned forward from all the hits to the midsection, he connected with a nice hook.