Hap Ki Do / Aiki Do

[Manny]

There are one aikido dojo and one hapkido dojan in my city, the akido is not so far away from my home, the hapkido is on the city limits.

How diferents are HKD and AKD? If I recall they are coming from the same root but there are some diferences beetwen them.

Thanx.

Manny

 

[Xue Sheng]

All I got is this

Hapkido

Aikido


But I am sure someone will be along soon with more direct experience and info

 

[dancingalone]

Hapkido and aikido both stem from daito-ryu aikijutsu. I've dabbled in hapkido and I am a regular aikidoist, studying under my wife. In my less than expert experience, I believe the hapkido techniques are done more forcefully and more downward motion in order to bring an attacker to the ground as quickly and painfully as possible, often with an intent to break a limb or joint. The corresponding aikido techniques are taught in more circular fashion to avoid injury, given aikido's philosophy about ethical self-defense. Obviously, any aikido technique can be modified to be rougher if one knows how, and vice versa, you can deploy a hapkido pin more gently if desired.

I believe both arts are more similar than they are apart. I often share aikido techniques within a martial study group I participate in. The hapkido and jujutsu people there always demonstrate their own versions, and the same concepts which make one technique effective span all three arts.

 

[Struk]

I would recommend reading this Hapkido writeup.

 

[Jenna]

Hapkido and aikido both stem from daito-ryu aikijutsu. I've dabbled in hapkido and I am a regular aikidoist, studying under my wife. In my less than expert experience, I believe the hapkido techniques are done more forcefully and more downward motion in order to bring an attacker to the ground as quickly and painfully as possible, often with an intent to break a limb or joint. The corresponding aikido techniques are taught in more circular fashion to avoid injury, given aikido's philosophy about ethical self-defense. Obviously, any aikido technique can be modified to be rougher if one knows how, and vice versa, you can deploy a hapkido pin more gently if desired.

I believe both arts are more similar than they are apart. I often share aikido techniques within a martial study group I participate in. The hapkido and jujutsu people there always demonstrate their own versions, and the same concepts which make one technique effective span all three arts.

Yes, sounds good

..Or in Hapkido, you get to wear a beautifully criss-crossed gi jacket [I would love one of those], whereas in Aikido you get to wear lovely flowing hakama Difficult choice, hmmm..

Sorry, I do not know enough about Hapkido to even comment, excuse me.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[zDom]

Yes, sounds good

..Or in Hapkido, you get to wear a beautifully criss-crossed gi jacket [I would love one of those], whereas in Aikido you get to wear lovely flowing hakama Difficult choice, hmmm..

Sorry, I do not know enough about Hapkido to even comment, excuse me.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

From what I know of Aikido and my training in hapkido, there are significant differences in responses to attacks.

In a nutshell, Aikido tends to be reactive defense whereas hapkido tends to be a bit more proactive. Aikido is more of a soft/inner style with a focus on spiritual self improvement, while hapkido is a mix of soft/hard and (at least they way we train MSK hapkido) very "-jutsu" (i.e., practical) oriented.

As I see it, an Aikido-ka would be inclined to make an attacker "fall down" and then, if they attack again, regretfully make them fall down again.

With hapkido, we would make a (serious) attacker fall down HARD and then strike them to make SURE they don't get up again.


From what I've read/seen of DRAJJ, that is one of the parts of hapkido that seem to show a connection to DRAJJ: the follow up striking to a downed opponent.

 

[Xue Sheng]

From what I know of Aikido and my training in hapkido, there are significant differences in responses to attacks.

In a nutshell, Aikido tends to be reactive defense whereas hapkido tends to be a bit more proactive. Aikido is more of a soft/inner style with a focus on spiritual self improvement, while hapkido is a mix of soft/hard and (at least they way we train MSK hapkido) very "-jutsu" (i.e., practical) oriented.

As I see it, an Aikido-ka would be inclined to make an attacker "fall down" and then, if they attack again, regretfully make them fall down again.

With hapkido, we would make a (serious) attacker fall down HARD and then strike them to make SURE they don't get up again.


From what I've read/seen of DRAJJ, that is one of the parts of hapkido that seem to show a connection to DRAJJ: the follow up striking to a downed opponent.

I have spared aikido people and watched Hapkido spar and I would have to agree. Hapkido looks a bit more painful in attack and defense

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

The essential difference between any different martial arts is not one of technique, but one of philosophy. I believe that is what many before me have been getting at when talking about the application of the two systems in question.

So my question to yourself would be this: Which philosophy suits your personality better (at this point in time - remember, people change as much as they stay the same!)? Which do you find yourself being more drawn towards? Are you more comfortable learning a system which advocates an immediately destructive response to an aggressive attack, or are you happier learning a more "compassionate" method of handling an attack?

Both arts are incredibly good at their approach, both arts will give you similar physical skills, both arts will lead you through a wonderful journey, it is just up to you as to where.

By the way, there is no better or worse here, simply better- or worse-suited to an individual. Too many times we answer these questions with "This art has strikes, that one gives you weapons, this one teaches ground work etc..", but with so similar arts, we can't really do that here. The distinction has to be personal. So I will end with the common advice, visit both schools, talk to the instructors, talk to the students, and allow that to guide your decision more than the little differences. It will make a bigger difference than technical aspects, anyway.

Enjoy!

PS If you still can't make up your mind after that, there is a little trick involving a coin...

Essentially, take out a coin. Any coin, doesn't matter. Choose one side to be Aikido (say, heads), and one to be Hapkido (tails). Flip the coin. Now comes the clever bit.

Look at the coin.

You have your answer.

Not what side it lands on, but how you respond to the way it landed. Let's say it landed on tails (Hapkido), and you feel relieved, or happy. Great! You now know that Hapkido is what you were really after all along! Or, if you end up with tails, and feel a little disappointed, or find yourself wishing it was heads, great! You now know that Aikido is your chosen art! Easy!

Cool trick, huh.

 

[Struk]

I believe the teacher is more important then the art you end up deciding on. Go and visit both schools and see how they train and if you like the teacher or not. Even if you like one of the arts more than the other a bad teacher will make you dislike it.

 

[Jenna]

There are many Aikido variants (OP has not stated which is available to him) While essentially, the ethos in Aikido is one primarily of defence, that in no way precludes its being 1). a "hard" style or 2). a art that uses strikes - I think, respectfully, that these are Youtube misconceptions often levelled at Aikido. In my own Aikikai style, which perhaps most closely mirrors the original teachings of Morihei Ueshiba, the intent of our defence is sought in tandem with the intent of not harming the opponent. But that is a philosophy. Were an Aikikai practitioner to disavow that philosophy she or he could torque out techniques to happily dislocate and fracture. Without wanting to create a contradiction, there can be as much "jutsu" in Ai-ki-do as in any other martial system.

And without wanting to sound argumentative, the idea of causing an opponent (in a real life scenario) to repeatedly fall down with the wild hope that he in some way comes to his proper moral good senses is almost absurd. The intention via Aikido is not to harm him in the course of our defence. If pain is mandated in the securing of that defence, then it is as easily applied as in any other martial form I am not trying to start any argument, and but I think the notion of "soft", atemi-less Aikido is a common misconception.

Again though, there are folk on this forum also who practise what might be regarded as "harder" styles that exemplify that "jutsu" more than my own style I am only giving my experience

I am aware that nothing I have said has answered the comparison question, and but I am not at all knowledgable in Hapkido and am happy to defer to those with Hapkido expertise Sorry

I think Chris Parker and Struk are right though to look at the wider issue - it would make most sense to simply sample both classes to find which is best match to your requirements

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[bluekey88]

As a former aikidoka that has had some exposure to hapkido. Similar arts, more striking in Hapkido. Basically, a difference in philosphy. BOth are excellent arts.

the best li ne I ever read regarding the difference between Aikido and Hapkido was this bumpers sticker line:

"Hapkido: Aikido's ugly cousin."



Peace,
Erik

 

[Manny]

I believe the teacher is more important then the art you end up deciding on. Go and visit both schools and see how they train and if you like the teacher or not. Even if you like one of the arts more than the other a bad teacher will make you dislike it.

Makes sense! Thank you very much.

Manny

 

[Struk]

the intent of our defence is sought in tandem with the intent of not harming the opponent.

I think this is the fundamental difference. In Hapkido we don't care/care less about the opponent. Our techniques can easily be escalated into breaking bones and dismember our opponent if necessary. If our opponent hits the floor we don't want him to come up again.

Now I believe there are even more flavors of Hapkido than Akido. So the intensity and execution of the techniques is different for several of the different types of Hapkido. Some has introduced high flying kicks and acrobatics into Hapkido others have stayed closer to the original curriculum. Hapkido is still evolving in different directions so you will not know what you are going to get before you try it.

I have had the privilege to study under two excellent teachers in two different flavors of Hapkido and I enjoy it very much.

 

[dortiz]

"The empty handed fighting techniques were known for their blending of the hard and the soft, linear and circular attacks based on Won Kwang Bopsa's concept of the unity of the opposites embodied in the Um-Yang. The ferocious fighting spirit of the Hwa Rang became legendary and their deeds were recorded in poetry and literature. This literature became part of Korean folklore and heroic legend and evolved into a system of ethics and morality that was essential to the evolution of the martial artist since their dedication to duty and self sacrifice rested on something larger than themselves.

These deep historical and philosophical connections sets Hapkido apart from Aikido that has its own particular philosophy developed by the founder Uyeshiba."

Struk,
I cant recommend folks read this garbage. This should actually be removed. If you want to have fun read some true historical stories as to what the Hwa Rang were. Flowering Youth ( Beautiful Boys).

Dave O.

 

[MrBigglesworth]

"Aikido's ugly cousin" - awesome line That was one of the first impressions I had of the takedowns.
There is definitely a more "aggressive" or "combative" intent in Hapkido.

 

[goingd]

The main thing separating the styles is that Hapkido includes hard (or just harder) strikes. At least that's kind of what Bong Soo Han said in an interview.

 

[Manny]

As long as I saw in videos, aikido is something more spirutual where the tke downs,pins,arms locks etc are like dancing, HKD is more hard and morre combative.

Manny

 

[Korppi76]

I think hapkido has more focus to kicks and strikes than aikido.
And what I have tried, direction of techniques are little bit different.

 

[matt.m]

Honestly there are different strains of hapkido and aikido respectfully. There is different intent between the techniquing of the 2 arts. The big difference is how it is taught in the school you attend.

To be perfectly honest it is about the school and the instructor and group of people you will train with. It really comes down to do you want to train japanese or korean?

 

[MrBigglesworth]

I think this is the fundamental difference. In Hapkido we don't care/care less about the opponent.

Aikido shows more "care" to an opponent, but in that unique way of thinking the Japanese have, where it is easy to absolutely bury your opponent and "love" them at the same time.
The main "care" they have relates to the connection between the 2 people. It is also about controlling, but by being more sensitive to them, it makes it easier to feel the best way to control them (and easier in training to poleaxe them but to not hurt them at the same time ;-).

Shioda (one of Ueshiba's early pupils who formed his own style) had the idea of "generous technique", which was all about feeling joy in the technique well executed. He tells a few war stories in his book about being attacked and marvelling at some punch he threw. The fact that he killed the guy with a punch is only mentioned as an afterthought.

Our techniques can easily be escalated into breaking bones and dismember our opponent if necessary. If our opponent hits the floor we don't want him to come up again.

Aikido can easily be escalated in the same way. Letting them get up again makes it easier to train, and Aikido has more throws from my limited exposure to Hapkido so far. That said, take a look for things like "ude garame", "irimi nage", "shiho nage" and "irimi tsuki". I defy most people to walk away from one of those executed aggressively on hard ground.