arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
Has anybody heard anything about this new round developed by Glock? It is suppose to have almost similar ballistics to the 45 ACP in a smaller package close in size to a 40SW.
thanks
Andy
thanks
Andy
Glock 45 GAP (Glock Auto Pistol)
- Thread starter arnisandyz
- Start date
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
Springfield is offering their XD polymer in the caliber as well. I'm sure it will sell, but it strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.
KenpoTex
Senior Master
I'm personally not too impressed with this new round. I think it's mostly just a case of them trying to create a demand. Supposedly it's marketed to people with hands too small for a full-size .45 acp (of course, I don't guess I can fault them for trying to sell more guns...that's the way the business works). Since the ballistics are almost identical to the .45 acp I don't foresee ever owning one myself. If it was better in some way it might be a different story.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
S
Stick Dummy
Guest
Arnisandyz,
I have heard both ways on the caliber, as previously mentioned. It is a quasi-proprietary round and most of those fail.
A .45 caliber round is going to recoil, and the smaller the package the more its going to do so. I've owned a shitload of compact .45s and they all recoiled more than a LW commander which gave me far better control based on hand size.
I have a friend that owns a Firestar .40 and considers it the most abusive handgun made, others LOVE them. Its in needs and perception.
The Glock 36 in .45ACP would be the best bet if you are so inclined for a small defensive weapon. I prefer the G-27 .40 S&W with either 180 gr. fmj's or 165 gr. fmj's in summer wear clothing. Light weight - 9 rounds - and minimal belt droop, or pants sag.......
My suggestion is to go to one of those gun rental ranges, should be some in your area, and fire a few shapes & sizes then make your selection from there.
I have heard both ways on the caliber, as previously mentioned. It is a quasi-proprietary round and most of those fail.
A .45 caliber round is going to recoil, and the smaller the package the more its going to do so. I've owned a shitload of compact .45s and they all recoiled more than a LW commander which gave me far better control based on hand size.
I have a friend that owns a Firestar .40 and considers it the most abusive handgun made, others LOVE them. Its in needs and perception.
The Glock 36 in .45ACP would be the best bet if you are so inclined for a small defensive weapon. I prefer the G-27 .40 S&W with either 180 gr. fmj's or 165 gr. fmj's in summer wear clothing. Light weight - 9 rounds - and minimal belt droop, or pants sag.......
My suggestion is to go to one of those gun rental ranges, should be some in your area, and fire a few shapes & sizes then make your selection from there.
The ballistics are very similar to the 45 ACP, and looks like an answer to a question that wasn't asked, but it appears to be primarily marketed to worldwide consumers. Many countries don't allow civilian possession of military ammunition (i.e., 9mm, 45 ACP, .380, 9mm makarov, etc.), especially European and South American countries with Euro influence. Since this is an Austrian pistol, a Eurocentric viewpoint is not unlikely despite the huge American market.
I think the smaller handgrip is going to pushed here in the U.S. as that is the only potential upside to the caliber I can see. I'm not fond of the high pressures behind a relatively large bullet design in a handgun that will be downsized due to the decreased cartridge design, but we won't know until enough samples reach the general public and the lead starts to fly.
The increased pressures are similar to the 45+P ACP. Nothing very remarkable, but for the same internal pressure handled by the firearm I get much more energy and penetration potential from the 45+P ACP as opposed to the 45 GAP.
You might also want to note that actual bullet sizes for the 45 GAP are kept a bit small ,185 grains and 200 grains so far, unlike the "working" bullet sizes for the 45 ACP of 225 grains and up, generally speaking. The recoil is about the same despite the smaller and lighter bullets due to the increased internal pressure of the round.
Do I dislike the bullet design? No, not at all. In some "hideaway" handguns it may be perfect for carrying that large cross-section lead thrower, but for standard sized guns in the U.S. it may just have a difficult time getting much of a foothold once the "newness" wears off.
I think the smaller handgrip is going to pushed here in the U.S. as that is the only potential upside to the caliber I can see. I'm not fond of the high pressures behind a relatively large bullet design in a handgun that will be downsized due to the decreased cartridge design, but we won't know until enough samples reach the general public and the lead starts to fly.
The increased pressures are similar to the 45+P ACP. Nothing very remarkable, but for the same internal pressure handled by the firearm I get much more energy and penetration potential from the 45+P ACP as opposed to the 45 GAP.
You might also want to note that actual bullet sizes for the 45 GAP are kept a bit small ,185 grains and 200 grains so far, unlike the "working" bullet sizes for the 45 ACP of 225 grains and up, generally speaking. The recoil is about the same despite the smaller and lighter bullets due to the increased internal pressure of the round.
Do I dislike the bullet design? No, not at all. In some "hideaway" handguns it may be perfect for carrying that large cross-section lead thrower, but for standard sized guns in the U.S. it may just have a difficult time getting much of a foothold once the "newness" wears off.
punisher73
Senior Master
Our department's firearms instructor is one of my friends and we got to talking about this round. The instructor is friends with one of Glocks factory reps that goes to all the trade shows etc.
"and looks like an answer to a question that wasn't asked" It wasn't so much of a question or problem according to the rep as much as Gaston wanted his name on a caliber. If you look at Glocks they don't have on them the full rounds name (ie: .40 S&W, .357SIG, .45ACP) but the new ones do have .45GAP on them.
As I had stated on another thread Glock has also made (but not released) a full sized slim line .45 ACP ( Glock 17/22 size) that was supposed to be out earlier this year but was pushed back to the end of this year to have more people buy the .45 GAP round. According to the factory rep the gun is supposed to sell for the same price (or close to) as the Glock 17/22.
"and looks like an answer to a question that wasn't asked" It wasn't so much of a question or problem according to the rep as much as Gaston wanted his name on a caliber. If you look at Glocks they don't have on them the full rounds name (ie: .40 S&W, .357SIG, .45ACP) but the new ones do have .45GAP on them.
As I had stated on another thread Glock has also made (but not released) a full sized slim line .45 ACP ( Glock 17/22 size) that was supposed to be out earlier this year but was pushed back to the end of this year to have more people buy the .45 GAP round. According to the factory rep the gun is supposed to sell for the same price (or close to) as the Glock 17/22.
Yeah, my brother is a Glock Armorer, SWAT team leader and firearms
intstructor for a city and parish (county) here in the state. He
mentioned something similar about Gaston wanting his name on his own
cartridge, who wouldn't? However, I find it very difficult to believe that simple ego and arrogance would make a company utilize so many resources and assets for something that is trivial compared to Gaston Glock's contribution to handgun history overall. Mr. Glock's name is very secure in the legends and lore of firearms. Gaston and the history of the company have never
struck me as foolish.
Like I wrote previously, in the U.S., there really isn't much of a reason for the GAP and whomever is intimately involved with Glock products must search for anything they can to justify it's existance here. Admittedly, should I live in a socialist country that dictates every facet of life with the purchase of a handgun for self-defense possible only through much expense, bureacracy, connections and groveling with no access to the .45 ACP, but with permission and hardship have the .45 GAP available, I would probably buy one.
intstructor for a city and parish (county) here in the state. He
mentioned something similar about Gaston wanting his name on his own
cartridge, who wouldn't? However, I find it very difficult to believe that simple ego and arrogance would make a company utilize so many resources and assets for something that is trivial compared to Gaston Glock's contribution to handgun history overall. Mr. Glock's name is very secure in the legends and lore of firearms. Gaston and the history of the company have never
struck me as foolish.
Like I wrote previously, in the U.S., there really isn't much of a reason for the GAP and whomever is intimately involved with Glock products must search for anything they can to justify it's existance here. Admittedly, should I live in a socialist country that dictates every facet of life with the purchase of a handgun for self-defense possible only through much expense, bureacracy, connections and groveling with no access to the .45 ACP, but with permission and hardship have the .45 GAP available, I would probably buy one.
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
At least the rep was honest.
Still seems like a solution in search of a problem, though the ego thing certainly explains it. But I am sure they will sell well, and probive the gun press with their articles for the next year: ".45 GAP vs .45 ACP; And the winner is....." "Browning vs. Glock; the rounds not the pistols...." ".45GAP...Perfection in Polymer????"
OK, they are getting worse; I'll stop now.
Still seems like a solution in search of a problem, though the ego thing certainly explains it. But I am sure they will sell well, and probive the gun press with their articles for the next year: ".45 GAP vs .45 ACP; And the winner is....." "Browning vs. Glock; the rounds not the pistols...." ".45GAP...Perfection in Polymer????"
OK, they are getting worse; I'll stop now.
OP
OP
arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
Looks like the 45 GAP will be here to stay. It seems like a viable choice.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/45gap.defend.htm
Chuck Taylor stated, “Finally, after nine-plus decades of unquestionable superiority, the M1911 faces the first serious challenger in its history --- the new Glock 37 chambered for the proprietary .45 Glock Automatic Pistol (GAP).” www.arotek.com and a few others provide excellent trigger jobs for Glocks as well. I would like to add that other manufacturer’s .45 GAP pistols such as the new Springfield XD .45 GAP pistol (with 4” & 5” barrels) will also challenge the venerable M1911 significantly.
eferring to the above chart, Chuck stated, “So, as you can see, from a size standpoint, the Glock 37 compares favorably with the M1911 and is certainly no less concealable or convenient to carry.” The 45GAP is ever bit as accurate and controllable as the long cased .45ACP.
The .45GAP will probably catch on even faster when folks realize it can be downloaded to equivalent standard ACP pressures, making it very tame with fast follow-up shots for USPSA Production Division & Limited 10, Bulls-eye events, Bowling pins, and medium-power duty loadings. The full-power duty loadings (equivalent to +P ACP pressures) is just icing on the cake. This new caliber appears to have a lot of potential that has yet to be tapped.
The .45 GAP requires less powder and case metal than the .45 ACP and is more cost efficient.
The short, stubby .45GAP may even prove to be one of the best in its class for speed and efficiency during the feeding and extraction/ejection process. And it will be interesting to compare the .45 GAP and .45 ACP out of short barrels.
If you keep affirming, “The 45GAP is a solution in search of a problem”, over and over again, you might be able to convince yourself and a few others.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/45gap.defend.htm
Chuck Taylor stated, “Finally, after nine-plus decades of unquestionable superiority, the M1911 faces the first serious challenger in its history --- the new Glock 37 chambered for the proprietary .45 Glock Automatic Pistol (GAP).” www.arotek.com and a few others provide excellent trigger jobs for Glocks as well. I would like to add that other manufacturer’s .45 GAP pistols such as the new Springfield XD .45 GAP pistol (with 4” & 5” barrels) will also challenge the venerable M1911 significantly.
eferring to the above chart, Chuck stated, “So, as you can see, from a size standpoint, the Glock 37 compares favorably with the M1911 and is certainly no less concealable or convenient to carry.” The 45GAP is ever bit as accurate and controllable as the long cased .45ACP.
The .45GAP will probably catch on even faster when folks realize it can be downloaded to equivalent standard ACP pressures, making it very tame with fast follow-up shots for USPSA Production Division & Limited 10, Bulls-eye events, Bowling pins, and medium-power duty loadings. The full-power duty loadings (equivalent to +P ACP pressures) is just icing on the cake. This new caliber appears to have a lot of potential that has yet to be tapped.
The .45 GAP requires less powder and case metal than the .45 ACP and is more cost efficient.
The short, stubby .45GAP may even prove to be one of the best in its class for speed and efficiency during the feeding and extraction/ejection process. And it will be interesting to compare the .45 GAP and .45 ACP out of short barrels.
If you keep affirming, “The 45GAP is a solution in search of a problem”, over and over again, you might be able to convince yourself and a few others.
This is a solution to a nonproblem plain and simple.Does any one remember the 10mm that was supposed to be fix for the hole in between the 9mm and 45acp.I suppose there are going to be the people with more money than brains that will run out and buy anything "new"Just like the tecogeeks will run out when there is a new flavor of raspberry, or banana phone that can balance your check bookwhile you call myspce and down load the newest utube video.The 40 S&W was another fix for this hole that the us government bought into.My guess is it made smith a bunch of $ for the government to equip the FBI with those new guns, I will not be running out to buy this new gun as you can probably guess from this post. I do not believe I will be running out and picking up a bluray player either. For those of you who bought into betamax, think about it.
The .45 GAP isn't a bad round at all, but as others have stated, it seems that Glock made a mistake by making their 37, 38, and 39, with slides wider than their 9mm/.40/357 Sig cousins. The frame width is the same, but the slides have the same thickness as the .45/10mm counterparts.
I don't see any reason why Glock couldn't have used the standard width slides, since they were certainly able to use an even thinner slide with the Glock 36 (.45 ACP, single stack, thinnest Glock available).
This caliber, though, could come in handy, in localities which forbid civilians from owning military calibers (9mm, .45 ACP, etc).
I don't see any reason why Glock couldn't have used the standard width slides, since they were certainly able to use an even thinner slide with the Glock 36 (.45 ACP, single stack, thinnest Glock available).
This caliber, though, could come in handy, in localities which forbid civilians from owning military calibers (9mm, .45 ACP, etc).
Actually, it was more of a knee-jerk reaction that was not even needed. You already know about the events that led to this, but it's certainly worth repeating.
The 115 grain Winchester Silvertip JHP did its job as it was supposed to. The only problem was, that the bullet had struck Platt in the arm first, travelled all the way through, and then entered Platt's torso. Had the bullet hit him in the torso without passing through the arm, I suspect that the FBI would still be using the 9mm as standard issue.
Details and all sorts of good links to the event are listed below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Miami_shootout,_1986
In the end, the FBI issued 10 mm pistols, but many of their agents complained about the recoil (standard loads at the time, were either a 170 grainer flying out at 1300 fps, or a 200 grainer at 1200 fps, both fun loads, indeed!), so the ammo companies came out with lower speed loads, that used a 180 grain bullet at subsonic velocities.
In the end, it was decided, that a .40 could do this (and do it quite well).
It's a shame, since the 10 mm is a fine cartridge, and very, very versatiles, indeed.
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