Global warming dials up our risks, UN report says

Makalakumu

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I have to ask again, assuming Anthropogenic Climate Change is real, why does the community of people pushing this focus on things like carbon taxes, global governance, and completely reshaping the world society from the top down? As I've posted before, there are some low cost and scientifically valid environmental engineering ideas that could literally stop any "global warming" in a very short amount of time. So, why the focus on Green Police and literally murdering children who disagree? This is the crazy level of groupthink that climate change fanatics push and I am skeptical of the entire enterprise when I see things like this.

Oh, and have you ever read what some of the people at the top of the climate change groupthink community say?


“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
– Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

“A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.”
– Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies

“The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”
– Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

“Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
– Professor Maurice King

“We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of acres of presently settled land.”
– David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

“Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it.”
– Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute

“The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
– Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation

“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
– Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

“Our insatiable drive to rummage deep beneath the surface of the earth is a willful expansion
of our dysfunctional civilization into Nature.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
-Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

“Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake,
use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.”
– Maurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit

“All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and
behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth.”
– Michael Fox, vice-president of The Humane Society

“Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Healing Gaia

“The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells, the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions.”
– Prof. Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb

“A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible.”
– United Nations, Global Biodiversity Assessment

“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
– Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor

“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.”
– Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind

“One America burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.”
– Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
– Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund

“I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”
– John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

“The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.”
– Christopher Manes, Earth First!

“Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.”
– David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
– Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports

“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.”
– Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC

“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”
– Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace

“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.”
– Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony, climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
-Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment

“The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level.”
– Al Gore, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize

“The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
– emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis.”
– David Rockefeller, Club of Rome executive manager

“Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the world’s scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send out entire planet’s climate system into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced – a catastrophe of our own making.”
– Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth

“By the end of this century, climate change will reduce the human population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Revenge of Gaia

“Climate Change will result in a catastrophic, global seal level rise of seven meters. That’s bye-bye most of Bangladesh, Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis.”
– Greenpeace International

“Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it’s here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon – the man-made natural disaster.”
– Barack Obama, US Presidential Candidate

“We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

“In Nature organic growth proceeds according to a Master Plan, a Blueprint. Such a ‘master plan’ is missing from the process of growth and development of the world system. Now is the time to draw up a master plan for sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years from today it will probably be too late.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.”
– UN Commission on Global Governance report

“Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“In my view, after fifty years of service in the United National system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet. We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways.”
– Dr. Robert Muller, UN Assistant Secretary General

“Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty to the international community and beginning to create a new system of international environmental governance as a means of solving otherwise unmanageable crises.”
– Lester Brown, WorldWatch Institute

“A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“Adopting a central organizing principle means embarking on an all-out effort to use every policy and program, every law and institution, to halt the destruction of the environment.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

“Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced – a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level.”
– UN Agenda 21

“The earth is literally our mother, not only because we depend on her for nurture and shelter but even more because the human sepcies has been shaped by her in the womb of evolution. Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature.”
– Rene Dubos, board member Planetary Citizens

This is beyond science, people. These people have a Utopian view of the future where the lumpenproletariat doesn't exist. The bottom line is this...if you can control carbon, tax it, limit emissions, you can control all life on the planet. THAT in my honest opinion, is what climate change pushers really want.
 

billc

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thanks. Makalakumu...

I believe K-Man doubted me when I posted that the man made global warming crowd was against third world nations advancing technologically...the "lie" word may even have been used, it was quite a few posts ago,

your post shows quite clearly this Luddite philosophy associated with this movement...

“The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”
– Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund



“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
-Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!
 

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So basically the weather isn't following the "were all going to die" plan so anyone that uses the FACT that temps haven't been rising in the last 2 decades is "a lie plain and simple.". Got it. So I either believe as you do or else huh lol ok

did you read the article? and...did you UNDERSTAND it?
 

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Right because he doesn't agree with you. Only people that walk lock step with you get to be on the team

well no, it's really the bit about, there isn't global warming because it's all part of god's master plan. that kind of thinking disqualifies him.
 

Flying Crane

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I have to ask again, assuming Anthropogenic Climate Change is real, why does the community of people pushing this focus on things like carbon taxes, global governance, and completely reshaping the world society from the top down? As I've posted before, there are some low cost and scientifically valid environmental engineering ideas that could literally stop any "global warming" in a very short amount of time. So, why the focus on Green Police and literally murdering children who disagree? This is the crazy level of groupthink that climate change fanatics push and I am skeptical of the entire enterprise when I see things like this.

Oh, and have you ever read what some of the people at the top of the climate change groupthink community say?




This is beyond science, people. These people have a Utopian view of the future where the lumpenproletariat doesn't exist. The bottom line is this...if you can control carbon, tax it, limit emissions, you can control all life on the planet. THAT in my honest opinion, is what climate change pushers really want.

i'm personally very doubtful that these quick and easy 'fixes' are actually viable. as for your list, care to list a citation of where you found this?
i suspect there may be things taken out of context, and probably more to the real message than these quotes in isolation suggest. there's a lot of names here, if i have time i'll research a couple to see if my suspicions are correct.

edit: i just read thru a few of the quotes in your list there. taken purely on their face, there's not a lot there that seems so radical. We've treated the earth like a trash bin an that is causing huge problems. we need to change our behavior, and our thinking around this issue. I personally agree with that.

and no, i do not believe that Jacques Cousteau and Ted Turner were actually calling for the murder and eradication of human beings. Rather, they were simply pointing out the limitations of the Earth and her resources, and putting it in terms that are blunt and hit home to the reader.
 
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Flying Crane

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Originally Posted by billc
As opposed to the scammers at the IPCC...The U.N....right...they have no agenda or reason to advance the myth of man made global warming...they are just a bunch of great guys...

As to climate models...they apparently can predict climate hundreds of years from now...but local weather...not so much...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/jan/04/computer-models-predict-climate-change

i gotta ask: did you actually read the article? 'cause it really supports the use of scientific models in climate change.

this is really funny, bill.

and nobody but you seems to think that global climate change is about predicting the local weather. Funny stuff!

bill? any thoughts on this one?
 

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And to some of the damage caused by believers in man made global warming...

He adds: “Light bulbs are a good example of the contradiction with the green movement. Europe has outlawed the tungsten lightbulb. Tungsten is a harmless metal, like gold, it does not react with anything and yet now, in the name of conserving energy, we have low energy light bulbs full of toxic chemicals, including mercury vapour, which is poisonous. If you smash a low energy lightbulb, the advice from the Department for the Environment is to vacate the room for 15 minutes.”


Yeah, I thought mercury in the home and in garbage dumps was a bad thing...but I guess if the green gods demand it...

And a funny story like this...

http://www.kentucky.com/2014/04/02/3174184/report-wood-burning-power-plants.html


I also find the lightbulbs problematic.
as for the Kentucky wood-burning power plant, I haven't researched your souces, but at least at face-value, I also find severe problems with that idea.

however, as I say, how does this disprove global climate change? These issues may be worth their own debate, but are simply a hollow distraction in this discussion (if disproving global climate change, or at least humanities guilt in the problem, is your goal). throwing them in here just makes it look more and more like you do not understand the issue.
 

Makalakumu

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i'm personally very doubtful that these quick and easy 'fixes' are actually viable. as for your list, care to list a citation of where you found this?
i suspect there may be things taken out of context, and probably more to the real message than these quotes in isolation suggest. there's a lot of names here, if i have time i'll research a couple to see if my suspicions are correct.

edit: i just read thru a few of the quotes in your list there. taken purely on their face, there's not a lot there that seems so radical. We've treated the earth like a trash bin an that is causing huge problems. we need to change our behavior, and our thinking around this issue. I personally agree with that.

and no, i do not believe that Jacques Cousteau and Ted Turner were actually calling for the murder and eradication of human beings. Rather, they were simply pointing out the limitations of the Earth and her resources, and putting it in terms that are blunt and hit home to the reader.

Watch the ad for the 10/10 campaign (it's linked in my last post) and think about what these guys are advocating for a moment. I don't really think you want to put yourself in their ideological camp.

Also, lets be perfectly honest with ourselves, barring some catastrophe, there will be no overarching global government that will "manage the world's carbon" and mitigate climate change. There are just too many players and too many varied interests. The communists had the same problem, btw. That's why they "purged" millions of dissenters, but I digress...or do I? ;)

But anyway, this giant top down solution has very little chance of happening. The low cost environmental engineering solutions are FAR more practical. Those solutions actually have a chance of being implemented. My suggestion is this...if you care about this issue, you need to support the solutions that actually have a chance of being implemented...rather then supporting the insane technoplutocrats and their plans for world domination and mass murder. ;)
 
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K-man

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Sorry to to have missed all the fun but believe it or not, I have to sleep from time to time. :)

There is always room for debate but the debate is to clarify the facts, not deny them.

As as to open minded seekers of the truth ... crap!

from NOAA Climate website, pretty recent info, from November 2013... http://www.climate.gov/news-feature...s-surface-temperature-stop-rising-past-decade

i invite you, of course, to read the full report and it is fairly complex, the forces that influence global climate. the short answer is, while there has been an observed "pause" in temperature, an understanding of these influencing global forces tells us that the earth continues to warm. this "pause" phenomenon is being used as a tool by climate deniers to sow doubt about it, but once again, the full story is not presented. It is a half-truth deliberately used and designed to lead the reader to a conclusion that is the opposite of the truth. as such, it is fraudulent and is a lie, plain and simple.
An excellent article that explains why surface temperatures haven't risen as fast as it might have been expected. However, if I looked at the temperature graph and had to put my life on the line to predict where the line is going I certainly would be on the side of 'up'.

To read a graph from a high point 10 or so years ago to a point now is disingenuous to say the least.

So basically the weather isn't following the "were all going to die" plan so anyone that uses the FACT that temps haven't been rising in the last 2 decades is "a lie plain and simple.". Got it. So I either believe as you do or else huh lol ok
Obviously you don't read the papers or watch the world news. Climatic disasters are occurring at an increasing rate world wide. The debate isn't that climate change and global warming is occurring. The only wriggle room it how much of it can be attributed to man-made polution and can we do anything to reverse it.

Right because he doesn't agree with you. Only people that walk lock step with you get to be on the team
No. People are entitled to whatever religious views turn them on. Fifteen hundred years ago religeon provided the answer to everything. Most of us have now moved on as scientific evidence provides us with more plausible explanations. If as some claim, the Bible is the word of God, then everything in it must be true. To cherry pick and say this is true but this is just a story doesn't make sense. That is interpretation. The literal story of creation in the Bible is simply not what happened. Any scientist that that says otherwise is not credible in my opinion. So this guy is probably off my team too.


I have to ask again, assuming Anthropogenic Climate Change is real, why does the community of people pushing this focus on things like carbon taxes, global governance, and completely reshaping the world society from the top down? As I've posted before, there are some low cost and scientifically valid environmental engineering ideas that could literally stop any "global warming" in a very short amount of time. So, why the focus on Green Police and literally murdering children who disagree? This is the crazy level of groupthink that climate change fanatics push and I am skeptical of the entire enterprise when I see things like this.

Oh, and have you ever read what some of the people at the top of the climate change groupthink community say?

This is beyond science, people. These people have a Utopian view of the future where the lumpenproletariat doesn't exist. The bottom line is this...if you can control carbon, tax it, limit emissions, you can control all life on the planet. THAT in my honest opinion, is what climate change pushers really want.
Do you really want to take this discussion down this path?

thanks. Makalakumu...

I believe K-Man doubted me when I posted that the man made global warming crowd was against third world nations advancing technologically...the "lie" word may even have been used, it was quite a few posts ago,

your post shows quite clearly this Luddite philosophy associated with this movement...
Then if I said it then, rather than spend time looking for it, I will save people looking ... it is a lie.

yeah, he's not credible. he believes it's all god's will.
OMG!
:asian:
 

Flying Crane

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Watch the ad for the 10/10 campaign and think about what these guys are advocating for a moment. I don't really think you want to put yourself in their ideological camp.

give me a link. i don't know what this is.

Also, lets be perfectly honest with ourselves, barring some catastrophe, there will be no overarching global government that will "manage the world's carbon" and mitigate climate change. There are just too many players and too many varied interests.

agreed.

The communists had the same problem, btw. That's why they "purged" millions of dissenters, but I digress...or do I? ;)

are you trying to equate global warming science with Soviet era an Chinese Cultural Revolution-era communism? if so, that's a real stretch, and something i absolutelt disagree with.

But anyway, this giant top down solution has very little chance of happening. The low cost environmental engineering solutions are FAR more practical. Those solutions actually have a chance of being implemented. My suggestion is this...if you care about this issue, you need to support the solutions that actually have a chance of being implemented...rather then supporting the insane technoplutocrats and their plans for world domination and mass murder. ;)

I disagree with your overall worldview perception of what's going on. yes, practical solutions should get our attention. No, I do not believe there is an overarching plot for world domination and mass murder.
 

K-man

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Watch the ad for the 10/10 campaign and think about what these guys are advocating for a moment. I don't really think you want to put yourself in their ideological camp.

Also, lets be perfectly honest with ourselves, barring some catastrophe, there will be no overarching global government that will "manage the world's carbon" and mitigate climate change. There are just too many players and too many varied interests. The communists had the same problem, btw. That's why they "purged" millions of dissenters, but I digress...or do I? ;)

But anyway, this giant top down solution has very little chance of happening. The low cost environmental engineering solutions are FAR more practical. Those solutions actually have a chance of being implemented. My suggestion is this...if you care about this issue, you need to support the solutions that actually have a chance of being implemented...rather then supporting the insane technoplutocrats and their plans for world domination and mass murder. ;)
Like some others here you swing from a position that shows some logic as in trying or at least researching low cost solutions of climate change to absolutely looney rhetoric about world domination and mass murder that derails the topic totally. We have debated the world domination and free society rubbish in the past. Let's keep this thread on track.

End of frustrated rant! :)
 

Makalakumu

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Like some others here you swing from a position that shows some logic as in trying or at least researching low cost solutions of climate change to absolutely looney rhetoric about world domination and mass murder that derails the topic totally. We have debated the world domination and free society rubbish in the past. Let's keep this thread on track.

End of frustrated rant! :)

I'm sorry you are frustrated, but lets be honest about what is being proposed as a "mainstream" solution to climate change. A carbon tax on emissions is a tax on all life processes on the planet. Controlling carbon emissions controls all sources. All life emits carbon. What is being proposed by the UN and satellite groups is a global bureaucracy that will collect carbon taxes and control emissions. In my opinion, this idea is insane. It's not going to happen, barring some catastrophe. It's also would lead to the death of billions of people. Carbon cannot be managed the way the global central planners want. This is the same hubris that the Communists engaged in...and resulted in the deaths of millions. Now, we have people who want to take this same central planning ideology and implement it on a global scale? I'm sorry, that is insane. I'm not loony for point this out. The idea is loony.

Nothing this, when you take a look at the quotes from the people who are behind pushing the management of humans contribution to the carbon cycle on the planet, Ads like this start to make more sense. Here is the ad in case you missed it before.

Do you see the connection to communism now?

Honestly, it's not me who is derailing this entire issue. It's the people who would like to completely reshape global society and "manage the worlds carbon" who are derailing this issue. The real solutions to climate change are low cost, scientifically sound, and will maintain the world we live in without creating the global bureaucracy needed to manage the world's carbon emissions.

The real problem here is that climate change is being used to mask another agenda. Wise up to this and accept reality my friends.
 
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Flying Crane

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My response indicates that I think it was nonsense.

yeah, i got that.

interesting. that was legitimate scientific information, from a highly qualified source. and yet you choose to reject that and instead embrace the misleading lies and half-truths perpetuated by discredited scientist, pretenders, and lobbyists for the fossil fuel industry of the ilk that billc keeps citing to. not a single one of his sources stands up to scrutiny. But those are the sources that you embrace.

ok, fair enough. the record speaks for itself.
 

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yeah, i got that.

interesting. that was legitimate scientific information, from a highly qualified source. and yet you choose to reject that and instead embrace the misleading lies and half-truths perpetuated by discredited scientist, pretenders, and lobbyists for the fossil fuel industry of the ilk that billc keeps citing to. not a single one of his sources stands up to scrutiny. But those are the sources that you embrace.

ok, fair enough. the record speaks for itself.
Ditto There are 1000's of legitimate scientists posting data that disagrees with your "we all going to die" unless you subsidize green energy, pay for carbon credits, stop driving cars. Yet you choose to ignore these scientist. Funny you dont debate the message they put out (because you cant) so instead you talk about their parents, grades or degrees, where they earn a paycheck , ect you know personal attacks your record speaks for itself as well :troll:
 

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The Global Warming Petition Project, also known as the Oregon Petition, is a petition to the United States government urging politicians to reject any policies based on concerns over global warming, and in particular the Kyoto Protocol of 1997.[SUP][1][/SUP] It was organized and circulated by Arthur B. Robinson, president of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine in 1998, and again in 2007.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] Past National Academy of Sciences president Frederick Seitz wrote a cover letter endorsing the petition.[SUP][4][/SUP]
According to Robinson, the petition has over 31,000 signatories. Over 9,000 report to have a Ph.D.,[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] mostly in engineering.[SUP][5][/SUP] The NIPCC (2009) Report lists 31,478 degreed signatories, including 9,029 with Ph.D.s.[SUP][6][/SUP] The list has been criticized for its lack of verification, with pranksters successfully submitting Charles Darwin, members of the Spice Girls and characters from Star Wars, and getting them briefly included on the list.[SUP][7][/SUP]
 

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