Gekisai 2

[Haze]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]If anyone knows this kata, goju form, I'm trying to see if there is a reason for the back side of the kata changing to kake uke / knife edge blocks since the front side uses closed fist side block.

What could be a possible problem that may be encountered using the closed fist side block that the knife edge block could remedy from a combative aspect.

Thanks
Haze
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[stone_dragone]

What could be a possible problem that may be encountered using the closed fist side block that the knife edge block could remedy from a combative aspect.

It's not so much a problem as a different desired result. The open hand blocking in the second half is a different skill set that includes grappling.

 

[dancingalone]

It's not so much a problem as a different desired result. The open hand blocking in the second half is a different skill set that includes grappling.

Agreed. Open hand blocks suggest the usage is more of a redirecting one as a probably precursor to a grab and counter made by the defender.

 

[seasoned]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]If anyone knows this kata, goju form, I'm trying to see if there is a reason for the back side of the kata changing to kake uke / knife edge blocks since the front side uses closed fist side block. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]What could be a possible problem that may be encountered using the closed fist side block that the knife edge block could remedy from a combative aspect.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Thanks[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Haze[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Not sure what your saying because, Gekisai 1 has all closed hand blocks while Gekisai 2 has all open hand blocks.

 

[Haze]

So with Gekisai 1 all closed hand blocks and then Gekisai 2 having open hand blocks is it that Miyagi Sensei was just introducing new technique in GS2 and would be getting into a closer range where parry/redirect, block/grab would be more inline with the closer range of combat?

 

[seasoned]

Gekisai Dai Ichi and Gekisai Dai Ni were created by Chojun Miyagi as foundational kata along with Sanchin kata, to set the base for Okinawan GoJu. With Sanchin kata setting the stage for the main principles of Okinawan GoJu, the Gekisai kata bridged the gap, as kata, was introduced to the new students. I personally try not to read to much into the bunkai aspect of these beginner kata, I do feel that they begin to point the new student toward the under lying concepts of Okinawan GoJu (hard/soft). The open hand circular movements do hold a key to the close in fighting capability of this art.

 

[K-man]

Not sure what your saying because, Gekisai 1 has all closed hand blocks while Gekisai 2 has all open hand blocks.

Not in all Goju styles. Having just returned from Okinawa, the form practised at the Jundokan based on the teaching of Ei'ichi Miyazato Sensei, arguably Miyagi Sensei's senior student, is closed hands in the first movements and open hand after the turn. Initially I had learned the form with all open hands, Goju Kai, but with hindsight Gogen Yamaguchi changed much of the Goju Ryu kata anyway. If you have any of Morio Higaonna's DVDs, he practises the same form, closed then open, obviously learnt as a student of Miyazato Sensei. My feeling is that both forms are related to close combat but that the softer aspect involves the open hands. Both are used for opening and closing the attacker but the open hands give more control, and being open arguably is quicker. Closed hands, IMHO, are more of a strike. However, if you would like to see a slow rendition of the bunkai (Gekisai dai ichi) performed by Taira Sensei from the Jundokan, it is on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exHbX8gvmO0&feature=related
Unfortunately I can't find a version of Gekisai dai ni.

 

[Laus]

For Gekisai's as I was taught them, in Gekisai I the front/back block are both uchi uke, Gekisai II they are both kake uke.

Gekisai II is not all open hand blocking for me either, only the two kake uke, and the 3 mawashi uke at the end. The opening blocks and the comination after the kake uke are done with closed hands.

There are senior ranks in the same dojo where I learned the Gekisais who were taught a different variation of the kata from the one practiced when I was there. I don't know that version, but I imagine it is a variation on what's already been discussed above. In my experience kata tend to change ever so slightly over periods of years, depening on what the Senseis are getting from their Senseis (and they from theirs, and so on).

 

[Haze]

Thanks! I have been wondering about the 2 gekisai's for some time as they are very similar and thought that ni/2 may be addressing something with the first did not cover besides just the introduction of kake uke. As I see it, it does cover a possibly closer range from strike to grapple but maybe I'm trying to read more into it than there is. (I have a tendency to be too analytical at times)

Again, thanks for all the replies.

 

[Myrmidon]

Not in all Goju styles. Having just returned from Okinawa, the form practised at the Jundokan based on the teaching of Ei'ichi Miyazato Sensei, arguably Miyagi Sensei's senior student, is closed hands in the first movements and open hand after the turn. Initially I had learned the form with all open hands, Goju Kai, but with hindsight Gogen Yamaguchi changed much of the Goju Ryu kata anyway.

In the Shodokan (Higa Seiko) and the Meibukan (Yagi Meitoku) Gekisai 2 is done with all open hand uke. Here is Gekisai 2 bunkai kumite shown with all open hand uke: