Gebukan KORYU KARATE???????

[Spinedoc]

A little confused by this.

Was looking at dojos in the Cleveland area, and was looking to see what the availability would be for Koryu, specifically looking for sword arts, but interestingly, this popped up...

Browser Compatability

Now, I've never heard of "Koryu Karate".........Does anyone have any information on this? Chris Parker?? Interesting....

Koryu Karate is very different from most other styles of karate. In fact, even the Kanji used to name Koryu Karate translates the word karate differently than the Kanji used by most of the other Karates. Here it means, "China Hand"; "Empty Hand," which is most commonly seen.

​

This Ryu (school) of Karate is a very High Level Martial Art with a very strong Chinese flavor. Its techniques come from Kijin Chosui Ryu Dakenjutsu (striking hand technique) and Tenshin Koryu Kenpo (fist method).
This art is extremely aggressive, explosive and completely devastating. Although the Techniques and Spirit of Koryu Karate are based on self-defense, they are designed to take your opponent out completely with your first response. It is the most linear of all the Martial Arts Tanemura Sensei teaches, and as such, it is a great compliment to his more circular and angular arts: Ninpo, Jujutsu, Chugoku Kenpo.
The spirit of this art drives you ever inward toward your opponent. Everything about this special art is designed to overwhelm your opponent. Even its physical structure (fighting stance) is designed to build up your Ki (you can literally feel the Qigong at work while you are in your fighting stance, so that you can respond with an unstoppable lightening-fast close range counter attack!

Just like other Chinese Martial Arts and True Qigong, Koryu Karate uses the principles of In (Yin) and Yo (Yang) to generate enormous power.
This Truly is a Very Special Martial Art.
For a detailed account of its lineage, please go to the Koryu Karate page on Tanemura Sensei's website.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I really don't know why Tanemura is calling the art "Koryu Karate", because as far as I can tell, it is neither.

1) It's his own synthesis of several older arts, which would make it a modern creation, not a koryu art. (BTW, I was reading an interview with Tanemura where he listed a bunch of additional arts it is derived from besides the two mentioned on that page.)

2) None of the arts it is derived from are have "karate" in their names. (One of the arts has "kenpo" in its name. I don't know if the kanji are related.)

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Like Tony I do not understand why Tanemura Sensei did this as well. Maybe a Genbukan member could let give their impression why this was done and also a broader perspective of this specific part of the teachings of Tanemura Sensei!

 

[Argus]

As far as I recall, -kan != koryuu, but is often mistaken as such.

I'm sure Chris will be along soon to clarify

 

[Chris Parker]

A little confused by this.

Was looking at dojos in the Cleveland area, and was looking to see what the availability would be for Koryu, specifically looking for sword arts, but interestingly, this popped up...

Browser Compatability

Now, I've never heard of "Koryu Karate".........Does anyone have any information on this? Chris Parker?? Interesting....

Koryu Karate is very different from most other styles of karate. In fact, even the Kanji used to name Koryu Karate translates the word karate differently than the Kanji used by most of the other Karates. Here it means, "China Hand"; "Empty Hand," which is most commonly seen.

​

This Ryu (school) of Karate is a very High Level Martial Art with a very strong Chinese flavor. Its techniques come from Kijin Chosui Ryu Dakenjutsu (striking hand technique) and Tenshin Koryu Kenpo (fist method).
This art is extremely aggressive, explosive and completely devastating. Although the Techniques and Spirit of Koryu Karate are based on self-defense, they are designed to take your opponent out completely with your first response. It is the most linear of all the Martial Arts Tanemura Sensei teaches, and as such, it is a great compliment to his more circular and angular arts: Ninpo, Jujutsu, Chugoku Kenpo.
The spirit of this art drives you ever inward toward your opponent. Everything about this special art is designed to overwhelm your opponent. Even its physical structure (fighting stance) is designed to build up your Ki (you can literally feel the Qigong at work while you are in your fighting stance, so that you can respond with an unstoppable lightening-fast close range counter attack!
Just like other Chinese Martial Arts and True Qigong, Koryu Karate uses the principles of In (Yin) and Yo (Yang) to generate enormous power.
This Truly is a Very Special Martial Art.
For a detailed account of its lineage, please go to the Koryu Karate page on Tanemura Sensei's website.

I'm not about to speak for Tanemura, but will add what I understand of this categorisation as we go.

I really don't know why Tanemura is calling the art "Koryu Karate", because as far as I can tell, it is neither.

Yeah… in a way… depending on how you choose to interpret things, or what stories you choose to believe…

1) It's his own synthesis of several older arts, which would make it a modern creation, not a koryu art. (BTW, I was reading an interview with Tanemura where he listed a bunch of additional arts it is derived from besides the two mentioned on that page.)

Cool. Well, the first thing we'll look at are those two systems… Kijin Chosui Ryu and Tenshin Koryu. Both of these systems claim a heritage that would make them "Koryu"… in fact, Kijin Chosui Ryu there is what Bujinkan and Jinenkan students know as Kukishin Ryu Dakentaijutsu (the full official name there is Kukishin Ryu Kijin Chosui Ryu Dakentaijutsu)… and is very similar in many ways to Shinden Tatara Ryu (most likely another that Tanemura mentioned in the interview, I'd suggest), which is said to have been drawn from the Amatsu Tatara no Maki (mentioned on the Genbukan page). Of course, that's just the claims.

More realistically, though, both of these systems are much more likely very new. A common thought is that they were developed by Takamatsu (Kijin Chosui Ryu/Kukishin Ryu Dakentaijutsu - it really can't be overlooked that Takamatsu went by the name Chosui when he was with the Kukishin Ryu, and wanted to form his own branch, to be referred to as the "Chosui-ha"… to this day, the aspects of the Kukishin Ryu that come from Takamatsu are referred to as "Chosui Ryu") and Ueno Takashi (Tenshin Koryu Kenpo), largely as responses to the more popular arts of Judo and Karate at the time. As a result, both feature a larger than normal range of defences against straight striking attacks, which are very similar to early karate, as well as defences against Judo-style grabs and throws.

2) None of the arts it is derived from are have "karate" in their names. (One of the arts has "kenpo" in its name. I don't know if the kanji are related.)

Well, to be fair, they don't claim to be derived from what is commonly meant by the term "Karate" (the Okinawan and Japanese forms based in the Okinawan ones)… although, of course, if the above thought is correct, then they are derived from karate… or, at least, are a response to it...

Of course, I'd be asking about the reason for the different kanji… the claim is that the systems have "a very strong Chinese flavour"… okay… but there's not really any mention of any Chinese origins for either. So the idea of "China Hand" (唐&#25163 doesn't really seem to make any more sense than "Empty Hand" (空&#25163 would…

In terms of the kanji for kenpo being related, no, not really… 拳法 (fist method), although they both have mention of a hand in some form, that's about it. If we're looking for a connection, though, the Chinese pronunciation is Chuan Fa… which was the term brought to Okinawa… but changed before coming to Japan…

As far as I recall, -kan != koryuu, but is often mistaken as such.

I'm sure Chris will be along soon to clarify

If anyone makes that mistake, they have no idea what they're talking about… "Kan" (&#39208 refers to a "hall" or "organisation"… nothing whatsoever to do with koryu… it'd be like thinking that a dojo is the same as the style… or that a just because a building is a school, it's by definition very old.

To get back to the Koryu Karate, though, from what I understand, it's really nothing more than Tanemura looking at the systems he'd learnt and been given ranking in, and trying to categorise them in a way that makes some sense to him… as a result, there are four primary areas, or groupings, of these arts… the Genbukan Ninpo Taijutsu section deals with arts that claim some historic link to ninjutsu practices or the peoples of Iga and Koga… as a result, it's made up of Togakure Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu etc… the Kokusei Jujutsu Renmei (KJJR) deals with more "classic" Jujutsu systems… arts that are related to samurai teachings, and focus more on grappling (locks, throws etc), such as Kukishin Ryu, Hontai Yoshin Ryu Takagi Ryu, Shinden Fudo Ryu (both lines), Daito Ryu, Asayama Ichiden Ryu, Bokuden Ryu etc… the Chugoku Kenpo are the Chinese systems themselves, with the name pretty literally meaning "Chinese (Middle Kingdom) Fist Methods", and include a form of Bagua, as well as other Chinese systems… with Koryu Karate, he's simply giving a classification to these arts that he sees as being related. He sees them as noticeably different to the systems within, say, the KJJR.

With regards to Tony's comment that the Koryu Karate system is Tanemura's synthesis of a range of systems, yeah. Mind you, so are each of the other categorisations he has… it's only at higher levels (over Sandan) that practitioners can focus on, and rank specifically in individual Ryu-ha.