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Structure in your Hubud? (long)
By Fan the Madman - 06-22-2010 11:57 PM
Originally Posted at: FMATalk
====================
This is a bit of an odd question but bear with me.. because I'd really like to get input from some of the senior FMA people who post here.
I'm in the odd position of being a guy teaching internal Chinese martial arts who is afraid he may have "borrowed" something from FMA and corrupted it so thoroughly it's not even FMA any more.
Here's how it went down. Over a decade ago I decided, as an adult, to train gungfu. I picked something I thought was "really cool". Training was traditional, in the sense that no forms were taught to beginners, just lots and lots of "basic movements" and body training. Stances, hand movement patterns (called "palm changes"), stretching, some in-the-air striking, qi gong. No contact practices (touching someone), no apparatus training, no pad-work, no bag-work, no sparring. At the time I thought that was "very traditional" and that I was being a good student for doing it Sifu's way.
After a few years of this and several moves around the country I decided to "sneak out" and learn something different. Being a smart lad I read up and found some "tough love" on the FMA community. I quietly pretended I had "just done some qi gong" and enrolled in the local Arnis De Mano school with the intent of learning to fight. Big, healthy aggressive dudes were welcome there and I fit that.
This school mainly did Largo Mano, mostly stick and double stick. Ranged tactics. Stick sparring with goggles and light gloves (nothing like the intensity of DBMA though! LOL).
Think of it as rattan welt-tag.
There was an attitude towards "that corto stuff" in the school. "Get your basics in Largo and if you want to learn *that corto stuff* you'll pick it up easy enough". I internalized this advice, learned some basic hubud with empty-hand and knife and went about my pipe training and marathon 1000-cut sessions and diamond stepping.
This is kinda long-winded but it's headed somewhere. After the next duty station transfer (this time to First CivDiv) I was a "lone wolf".. going to seminars, cross-training other things, getting back into gungfu, studying knife and "that corto stuff" etc.
Eventually I wound up in a rough MMA/BJJ/MT gym and when asked about my experiences I just downplayed it ("Dude, I did alot of little things, kali, some of the fu, let's get some pad work in!").
The head coach became a friend and asked me to teach some stick and knife to his guys. So I became a teacher, and found out it was quite possibly the "perfect drug"
I had this guy who was no rocket scientist but loved flow drill and kept showing up.. so we kept doing hubud. I improvised and just kept throwing crap at him in the context of the drill, very little of which I had been shown in that context.
Three venues later the kungfu students (I send the kali and silat prospects to the local storefronts who do that much better than me) love the "hand drill" and we all do the kungfu stuff out of it for much the same reason FMA people do hubud. Timing, sensitivity etc. Also most of my good kungfu teachers weren't much on contact/sensitivity drills, so I had to make it with what I had in the black bag already.
At what point does this stop being FMA? I'll correct students who do hubud the "typical FMA way" (I want the elbow down, not out, on the intercepting hand, I want them to check with the fingers down and to the tricep, instead of palm on top of the arm like I see alot of FMA people do).
I'll show them standing postures and CMA structure and then when they do their "hand drill" I'm like.. use that frame..
I never really thought about it too much.. after all.. my FMA teachers gave me this to use and said "make it work boyo!". So I did. And boy did it work.
Then I had a newb join the class who has a Kali-Silat background (a first!). And he does hubud in a more "normal" way. I correct. Then I start thinking.. "Dude exactly what are you doing to this guy?".
So what kind of structure variations are there in your hubud? Elbow angles? Directions of check? Etc.
None of this was covered in Largo.. it was very broad, done with practice knives and "don't get cut" was about as far as the subtleties went. If you asked questions it was "back off and angle out on him".
Is what I'm describing within the breadth of FMA or does it sound like something else (a corrupt hybrid perhaps LOL)?
Read More...
------------------------------------
FMATalk.com Post Bot - FMA Feed
By Fan the Madman - 06-22-2010 11:57 PM
Originally Posted at: FMATalk
====================
This is a bit of an odd question but bear with me.. because I'd really like to get input from some of the senior FMA people who post here.
I'm in the odd position of being a guy teaching internal Chinese martial arts who is afraid he may have "borrowed" something from FMA and corrupted it so thoroughly it's not even FMA any more.
Here's how it went down. Over a decade ago I decided, as an adult, to train gungfu. I picked something I thought was "really cool". Training was traditional, in the sense that no forms were taught to beginners, just lots and lots of "basic movements" and body training. Stances, hand movement patterns (called "palm changes"), stretching, some in-the-air striking, qi gong. No contact practices (touching someone), no apparatus training, no pad-work, no bag-work, no sparring. At the time I thought that was "very traditional" and that I was being a good student for doing it Sifu's way.
After a few years of this and several moves around the country I decided to "sneak out" and learn something different. Being a smart lad I read up and found some "tough love" on the FMA community. I quietly pretended I had "just done some qi gong" and enrolled in the local Arnis De Mano school with the intent of learning to fight. Big, healthy aggressive dudes were welcome there and I fit that.
This school mainly did Largo Mano, mostly stick and double stick. Ranged tactics. Stick sparring with goggles and light gloves (nothing like the intensity of DBMA though! LOL).
Think of it as rattan welt-tag.
There was an attitude towards "that corto stuff" in the school. "Get your basics in Largo and if you want to learn *that corto stuff* you'll pick it up easy enough". I internalized this advice, learned some basic hubud with empty-hand and knife and went about my pipe training and marathon 1000-cut sessions and diamond stepping.
This is kinda long-winded but it's headed somewhere. After the next duty station transfer (this time to First CivDiv) I was a "lone wolf".. going to seminars, cross-training other things, getting back into gungfu, studying knife and "that corto stuff" etc.
Eventually I wound up in a rough MMA/BJJ/MT gym and when asked about my experiences I just downplayed it ("Dude, I did alot of little things, kali, some of the fu, let's get some pad work in!").
The head coach became a friend and asked me to teach some stick and knife to his guys. So I became a teacher, and found out it was quite possibly the "perfect drug"
I had this guy who was no rocket scientist but loved flow drill and kept showing up.. so we kept doing hubud. I improvised and just kept throwing crap at him in the context of the drill, very little of which I had been shown in that context.
Three venues later the kungfu students (I send the kali and silat prospects to the local storefronts who do that much better than me) love the "hand drill" and we all do the kungfu stuff out of it for much the same reason FMA people do hubud. Timing, sensitivity etc. Also most of my good kungfu teachers weren't much on contact/sensitivity drills, so I had to make it with what I had in the black bag already.
At what point does this stop being FMA? I'll correct students who do hubud the "typical FMA way" (I want the elbow down, not out, on the intercepting hand, I want them to check with the fingers down and to the tricep, instead of palm on top of the arm like I see alot of FMA people do).
I'll show them standing postures and CMA structure and then when they do their "hand drill" I'm like.. use that frame..
I never really thought about it too much.. after all.. my FMA teachers gave me this to use and said "make it work boyo!". So I did. And boy did it work.
Then I had a newb join the class who has a Kali-Silat background (a first!). And he does hubud in a more "normal" way. I correct. Then I start thinking.. "Dude exactly what are you doing to this guy?".
So what kind of structure variations are there in your hubud? Elbow angles? Directions of check? Etc.
None of this was covered in Largo.. it was very broad, done with practice knives and "don't get cut" was about as far as the subtleties went. If you asked questions it was "back off and angle out on him".
Is what I'm describing within the breadth of FMA or does it sound like something else (a corrupt hybrid perhaps LOL)?
Read More...
------------------------------------
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