FMA with only english terminology?
- Thread starter SFC JeffJ
- Start date
I guess it depends, it may be that the instructor is more worried about getting the skills across rather that having the obstacle of language added to it. Pangamot, panastas, pasalod, pamatay, uh, excuse me, what was that??? Is the art less Filipino if I call something a fan strike rather than a witik or an abiniko?
Lamont
Lamont
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Although it depends on the total circumstance, I don't think that is a big deal or bad thing. It certianly wouldn't make or break my opinion of the instructor.
OP
OP
It's actually kind of refreshing after all the various Japanese arts I've studied over the years, many with different names for the same techniques. When asking him about the terminology, I noticed it was different from the bit of kali that I studied years ago, so I was happy not to have to learn new words for the stuff I already knew.
Jeff
Jeff
I suppose as long as the instructor can get the point across, I really don't see anything wrong with not using the Filipino language. Part of our rank requirements in to be able to count from 1-12, but the class is conducted in English. Of course, if we're teaching someone Siniwali, we give them the English translation, so they'll have a better idea.
Mike
Mike
In IRT which has a heavy filipino influence I just use english. It is simply more convenient because I teach all english speaking students. (plus i tend to butcher languages
) Now I will throw out the filipino terms now and then for the students overall knowledge and benefit but I speak english so that is the language I want to teach in. (this works for me)
I imagine that this instructor feels similar in that he teaches all english speaking students. Makes sence to speak in english. Yet I also understand why someone would want to teach all of the filipino terms as well.
I imagine that this instructor feels similar in that he teaches all english speaking students. Makes sence to speak in english. Yet I also understand why someone would want to teach all of the filipino terms as well.
tellner
Senior Master
My general rule of thumb has been English for most things, specific technical jargon in another language if it makes learning easier. O-Uchi Gari is more compact than Larger Inside Reaping Foot Throw. On the other hand, reciting the Boy Scout Oath (i.e. Dojo Kun) in Japanese serves no purpose whatsoever for non-Japanese speakers.
In Silat class we have about a dozen Indonesian words.
In Silat class we have about a dozen Indonesian words.
lhommedieu
Black Belt
Why not ask if the art is less authentic if the language spoken in class is not entirely, e.g., Tagalog or Cebeuno, etc.? After all, if the (less than 1% of) Pilipino words spoken in class make the art more authentic, then adding more Pilipino words would make the art proportionately more authentic.
To extend the ad absurdum arguement further: non-native speakers of, e.g., Cebuano, are clearly teaching an art that is less authentic than native speakers of Cebuano, because native speakers understand the nuances and contexts of the language better. This is irrespective of their martial arts skill or ability to teach a martial art - the art is more authenic if native language speakers are teaching it, due to the authenticity of the language used, per se.
Okay - I'm done ranting now. I wish I could have said it in Cebuano though.
Best,
Steve Lamade
To extend the ad absurdum arguement further: non-native speakers of, e.g., Cebuano, are clearly teaching an art that is less authentic than native speakers of Cebuano, because native speakers understand the nuances and contexts of the language better. This is irrespective of their martial arts skill or ability to teach a martial art - the art is more authenic if native language speakers are teaching it, due to the authenticity of the language used, per se.
Okay - I'm done ranting now. I wish I could have said it in Cebuano though.
Best,
Steve Lamade
arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
I remember one instructor from Texas saying..."A'right ya'll, now were goin to be doin the "goon'tang." I don't speak Tagalog as much as I should anymore, but scissor strike would have sounded better. It really doesn't matter how you say it, but how you do it. I went to one seminar a long time ago that had one instructor who spoke very little English. He ran through an entire seminar saying "just do like dis"...he didn't use terminology one way or the other, but everyone seemed to understand what he wanted us to do!
I agree. Ultimately what matters is if you're good.
Not knowing the Pilipino terms for certain aspects of the art may affect perception of one's knowledge. But, perceptions don't win a fight.
Danny T
Senior Master
"Do you want to learn my language or do you want to learn to fight?"
Stated by Tuhon Leo Gaje sometime back in the 80's when someone asked about terminology. A few years later a Guro Omar Hakim asked Tuhon Gaje about "enlightenment" within Pekiti-Tirsia. Tuhon responded, "You want enlightenment go to church! You want to learn to fight, come to me." As Art goes Pekiti-Tirsia is not an art but an Edged weapon combat training system. I feel what is important is simply communicating. What is the simplest and most effective means of communicating the information. Tuhon Bill McGrath has stated many times GT Gaje would simply say, "Do this" and demo the move he wanted. No terminalogy just "Do this" and everyone would watch and understood. Does the movement or technique become more effective because it has a Filipino terminology?
Danny Terrell
Stated by Tuhon Leo Gaje sometime back in the 80's when someone asked about terminology. A few years later a Guro Omar Hakim asked Tuhon Gaje about "enlightenment" within Pekiti-Tirsia. Tuhon responded, "You want enlightenment go to church! You want to learn to fight, come to me." As Art goes Pekiti-Tirsia is not an art but an Edged weapon combat training system. I feel what is important is simply communicating. What is the simplest and most effective means of communicating the information. Tuhon Bill McGrath has stated many times GT Gaje would simply say, "Do this" and demo the move he wanted. No terminalogy just "Do this" and everyone would watch and understood. Does the movement or technique become more effective because it has a Filipino terminology?
Danny Terrell
There is a difference between learning the art and learning the culture for any martial art.
While learn the original language is not essential for learning a movement, it can provide a window of opportuntity to learn of the culture that gave birth to the art.
While learn the original language is not essential for learning a movement, it can provide a window of opportuntity to learn of the culture that gave birth to the art.
GM Antonio "Tatang" Ilustrisimo was known to use english, just with an accent so it at time it sound like he was using an Filipino word. An example is the concept of "Praksion", its actually 'fraction'.
M. Rey Galng has gone the other route where he use all tagalog terrms even is teaching sinawali, translating the original kapangpanan (sp?) to tagalog as well.
Now my personal feeling is when you stop using a filipino language (be it cebuano, tagalog, bikolano) the cultural aspect is lost and for me the cultural aspect is very important. However, I know that not everyone is interested in the culture so I don't push it.
Vince
M. Rey Galng has gone the other route where he use all tagalog terrms even is teaching sinawali, translating the original kapangpanan (sp?) to tagalog as well.
Now my personal feeling is when you stop using a filipino language (be it cebuano, tagalog, bikolano) the cultural aspect is lost and for me the cultural aspect is very important. However, I know that not everyone is interested in the culture so I don't push it.
Vince
Perpetual White Belt
Blue Belt
I use mostly English to teach unless as someone stated earlier,the Filipino term is shorter. I often also supply the Filipino term along with the English, but it's just easier for me to teach English speaking students in English.
arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
Like others have said, it also depends on who your are teaching. I have a group of students (martial artists) who are intrested in learning the system and interested in the culture, I teach them with Filipino terminolgy. These are the students who do the Filipino cultural demos with me.
I'm also starting a training group comprised of Concealed Carry Permit holders wanting to expand thier defensive skill set...I don't stress using or learning the Filipino terminology, just knowing that the techniques come from FMA is enough. If their interest grows beyond wanting to learn defensive skill into learning more about the ART then they can participate in the other class.
I'm also starting a training group comprised of Concealed Carry Permit holders wanting to expand thier defensive skill set...I don't stress using or learning the Filipino terminology, just knowing that the techniques come from FMA is enough. If their interest grows beyond wanting to learn defensive skill into learning more about the ART then they can participate in the other class.
I agree completely. For me personally learning about the cultural aspect of the art has really helped me appreciate how it came about.
In a previous post I mentioned that I don't think the Pilipino terms are necessary if you are training someone to win a fight.
However...at least for my own path...I train for the experience just as much as anything else. And for that reason...I've greatly enjoyed learning the cultural aspects that go with it and I've appreciated training at a school that truly prizes the cultural aspect of the art and not just the combat.
There's something about learning a deadly technique while surrounded by beautiful Southeast Asian Artisanship that just...puts the world in balance
