Finger Set

[KenpoGirl]

Okay, when I have seen finger set done in the past I've always thought it was more than a little hokey, with all the finger waving and such.

It reminds me of the three stoogies {Woo Woo Woo}

Now that I have been forced to learn the set ..... my opinion HASN'T CHANGED ONE BIT!!!! :shrug:

Now don't get me wrong I understand that it has a use, but sheesh.

Anywise after the ranting is complete, I was curious at what speed are you suppose to do it, once you've mastered it of course. A steady pace or zip through it as fast as you can?

Dot

 

[jeffkyle]

It is just like anything else. Once you get the sequence of moves you start to play with the timing of the set. Until you figure out what works best for you. Your speed will vary with the change in timing.

 

[Elfan]

Whats hokey about finger set? Looks fine to me.

Now stance set....

 

[Michael Billings]

Regarding Finger Set.

Opinions Vary!

-Michael

 

[Klondike93]

I've been wondering how fast one is suppose to go through this set too. I've thought it's as fast as kicking set which I was shown to do at a walking pace. I like the idea of finger set and I can see where one would think it's "hokey".

So how fast does one do this set or for that matter how fast do you the forms too?





:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by KenpoGirl

Okay, when I have seen finger set done in the past I've always thought it was more than a little hokey, with all the finger waving and such.
Dot

Hmmmm,
1. major/minor moves
2. minor transitionary moves
3. shows inserted moves
4. depth of action
5. application of the finger techniques
etc., etc

 

[Michael Billings]

Kicking Set = Maneuver/Kick timing, I train it as a fighting or sparring set teaching how to maneuver as a function of range to the target, especially the first "wall" or side (a different maneuver with each kick), then we practice shuffles on both sides and step throughs, although it is still about Ranges. The timing is Maneuver/Kick, then Pause; Maneuver/Kick, then Pause. Put Kicking Set it in an application frame of reference for the beginning student. Show him what it can look like, then stress that it is ok to learn it at a walking speed, we all learn to crawl before we walk - In-Place kicks, then we learn to walk before we run - Kicking Set walking through; but eventually we like to run - apply Kicking Set as designed and use it to teach how to close and gauge ranges for appropriate maneuvers and Kicks. YEE-HAAA!

Finger Set - Think fighting in a phone booth, think real self-defense in a limited or seated environment (a plane, your desk, etc.) Think about a small person against a much bigger person. This is not a stand up fight, this is an assault. Finger strikes are to soft, realistic, vulnerable targets - it is not about who can beat who, but whether this knowledge can help you survive. I adamently think it can! Otherwise why practice any set or Form? (OK there are a lot of reasons to do forms, besides I like them.)

It is also real cool to do as a prefix to a harder style Form in a tournament ... not that I go to a lot anymore, but I probably earned over 100 trophys in my career (a shadow of the number my instructor at the time earned, Brian Duffy.) And some were with Finger Set - Short 2 or Long 2, or Finger Set Short 3. It showed the soft with the hard. And the pace was the same as I would do anywhere. Flowing with pauses and emphasis on finished strikes, then flow again to the next focus point. Don't snowball through it, but don't make it painstakingly slow and the same rhythm.

-Michael

 

[KenpoGirl]

Hey Thanks for everyones input.

Didn't mean to bash it, I truely do understand it's uses, even more after Mr. Billings help.

Blame it on my Misspent youth, forced to what endless reruns of the 3 stooges on Sunday afternoon. The very first time I saw it I laughed out loud because of the similarities it has to what the stooges use to do to each other.

Dot

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by KenpoGirl


Blame it on my Misspent youth, forced to what endless reruns of the 3 stooges on Sunday afternoon. Dot

And what is so misspent about watching the Stooges?

 

[Michael Billings]

Nothing is wasted watching the stooges. If it is, it is my time to waste. Hee-hee.

And you don't have to refer to me as Mr. Billings unless we are in person in a class, but thanks for the thought.
-MB

 

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by Seig

And what is so misspent about watching the Stooges?

Originally posted by Michael Billings

Nothing is wasted watching the stooges. If it is, it is my time to waste. Hee-hee.

It's gotta be a guy thing.

 

[Blindside]

It's gotta be a guy thing.

No, its not. I can distinctly remember (I was probably 10)my dad watching the Three Stooges on television, and thinking "why is this funny?"

Lamont

 

[Blindside]

Ok, add on question.

Why is this belt taught at the mid-level ranks? Some schools require it for green others for blue. I'm just curious, we moved it to the Yellow requirements.

Lamont

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by Blindside

Ok, add on question.

Why is this belt taught at the mid-level ranks? Some schools require it for green others for blue. I'm just curious, we moved it to the Yellow requirements.

Lamont

Typo in there? Are you refering to finger set or kicking set? Or am I just confused again?

 

[Kirk]

At my school, it's required for green.

 

[Blindside]

Ahem, its a typo, it should read:

Why is Finger Set taught at the mid-level ranks? Some schools require it for green others for blue. I'm just curious, we moved it to the Yellow requirements.

Must proof-read....

 

[Michael Billings]

According to Infinite Insights:

1. Stances - The legs form the foundation of all self-defense moves. They are your first aid in creating distance -- man's first ally.

2. Blocks - Student's should first learn defense before learning offense.

3. Parries - Although they considered a method of blocking, they require a higher degree of timing.

4. Punches - Offense utilizing the arms first while maintaining support and balance with both feet on the ground.

5. Strikes - Teach a multitude of methods in which one can render offensive techniques. At this level the student also becomes familiar with the angles of execution.

6. Finger Techniques - Specialized offensive weapons requiring a high degree of accuracy.

7. Kicks - The balance factor makes execution more difficult. It requires more patience and conscientious effort to kick with one leg and balance on the other to obtain maximum power.

8. Foot Maneuvers - Require synchronized complete coordination of the lower and upper body.

And actually we work on them all at every belt level. For example Yellow Belt Crossovers in B3a look very different from the blitz maneuver as done at Brown. Or Kicking Set for Orange Stripe (or wherever you place it) looks very different at Purple from a 1st Brown doing it.

-Michael

 

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by KenpoGirl

Okay, when I have seen finger set done in the past I've always thought it was more than a little hokey, with all the finger waving and such.

It reminds me of the three stoogies {Woo Woo Woo}

Now that I have been forced to learn the set ..... my opinion HASN'T CHANGED ONE BIT!!!! :shrug:

Now don't get me wrong I understand that it has a use, but sheesh.

Anywise after the ranting is complete, I was curious at what speed are you suppose to do it, once you've mastered it of course. A steady pace or zip through it as fast as you can?

Dot

Hi Dot!
Gee, being canadian, i'm not sure if you saw this show in the "great white north" but it reminds me of Dan Ackroyd's comment to Jane Curtain on weekend update news segment on "point-counterpoint"on "Saturday Night Live"TV show..."Jane, you ignorant misguided slut! once again you've missed the point entirely!" J/K!!!!!!!
Seriously,Dot, I can see your point about finger set so lets get some background on it...
according to "various sources" the set was originally part or a complete set that came from a kung fu style that Mr. Parker had learned from one of his "chinatown connection" sifus OR it was a set he made up for a demonstration based on the "Chinese Karate" finger techniques he had learned.
As far as the "finger waving" goes [joke: "it's all based on WHICH finger you're waving!"]LOL
honestly, I can see where you would get that idea from aspects like the "windshield wiper" clawing action in the set. But, the set does teach you how to execute different "methods of execution" with the various finger techniques. I'll be more than happy to discuss it in detail with you via IM or phone call if you'd like!

As far as the "3 stooges" reference, CONGRATULATIONS!! You've struck upon one of Mr. Parker's greatest influences in regards to the understanding of reverse and returning motion,intentional and unintentional borrowed force, and reactionary positioning in regards to motion!!!! :::GOLD STAR FOR DOT!!:::
If you ask anyone who knew Mr. Parker, they could all tell you of his admiration,respect and joy of the "magicians of martial motion and mayhem"!
i'm sorry your opinion hasn't changed regarding the set, hopefully that will change with time ,effort,education and understanding.
In regards to the speed of the set, always do the set initially with correct form,technique,purposeful action and power, then go onto speed ONLY when you have a thorough understanding of the set.
REMEMBER:"Speed kills, but technique is everything!"
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com
http://members.aol.com/KENPOJOE/
:::Getting off my soapbox now::::soapbox:

 

[Elfan]

Blue for me.

So you teach it at yellow? That would seem a bit early to me. How do students do with it?

 

[Blindside]

Quite frankly they do just fine with it. Admittedly they do it at a beginner level, but that smooths out and the transitions get better as they get more experienced, just like any other form/set. At that level it is taught as an introduction to handweapons. By blue/green belts the practitioners have already learned and used virtually all of these handweapons in a technique, so it seemed sort of silly to have a set designed to teach them items that they already knew.

It works for us,

Lamont