Effectiveness

[Bushido]

To me, after having practicing Aikido for 3 years, I realized that it is really effective vs grabs, put totally illusionnary and useless vs strikes. What do you think?

I write this with total respect for aikido or its practicers, just want to exchange ideas/opinion with a freespirit...

-Bushido :samurai:

 

[ukemi]

It depends on how you train. If you train hard against strikes, effectivness will follow. As Ikeda sensei often says "It's not that Aikido doesn't work, it's that your Aikido doesn't work"

 

[bscastro]

I agree. I don't do Aikido, but I've met several Aikidoka (is that the right term). Some are very good against strikes, some against grabs, some not good at all. It is like this in all martial arts. It's about how you train.

Cheers,
Bryan

 

[Despairbear]

Originally posted by Bushido

To me, after having practicing Aikido for 3 years, I realized that it is really effective vs grabs, put totally illusionnary and useless vs strikes. What do you think?

I write this with total respect for aikido or its practicers, just want to exchange ideas/opinion with a freespirit...

-Bushido :samurai:

Sounds like you need to study for 3 more years.



Despair Bear

 

[Bushido]

I'm used to the brazilian jiujitsu kind of effectiveness.

-Bushido

 

[ukemi]

Originally posted by Bushido

I'm used to the brazilian jiujitsu kind of effectiveness.

-Bushido

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I've trained with many BBJ folks. They are good at what they train at, just like everyone else.

 

[Jas]

In my style of Aikido (Nihon Goshin) we practice mostly against strikes we also do alot of work with grips. Starting when you reach Blue belt you have to complite a defence line to advance to the next level, from blue to green theres 30 attacks, from green to purple theres 40 and so on. ( sorry about the spelling )

:soapbox:

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Bushido

To me, after having practicing Aikido for 3 years, I realized that it is really effective vs grabs, put totally illusionnary and useless vs strikes. What do you think?

I write this with total respect for aikido or its practicers, just want to exchange ideas/opinion with a freespirit...

-Bushido :samurai:

In Aikido there is no difference between grabs or strikes.
Aikido bases it's movements on reacting to the "energi", so if it's a grab or strike, it'll be the same.

But it is harder to learn to defend yourself against a punch, than grab, that's why , I think, that aikido allways starts off with grabs.

/Yari

 

[old_sempai]

:asian:

I was under the impression that the formal training program only required a student do a self-defense line test for Ikyu and Shodan. Apparently your instructor has raised the bar on testing standards, and there is certainly nothing wrong with this since sooner or later the SDL must be accomplished before being promoted. By the way how was the NGA Seminar? I was unable to attend because of family commitments.

:asian: :asian:

 

[Bushido]

I think that the way aikidoka throws punch are unrealistic. They "give" their arm to the defender. If an aikidoka had to defend himself on the streets vs punch, he would have an enormous surprise. Give the attacker a pair of light-impact gloves and make him attack, you'll see. I think it would be nice to re-think the way aikidoka punch to adapt it to real self-defence and keep aikido evolving bacause, like Christian Tissier Sensei said: "Aikido should not be a conclusion, a rigid responce, it should flow and adapt to modern day people in its defensive form".

Peace

-Bushido

 

[old_sempai]

:asian:

In the style known as Nihon Goshin Aikido Uke does not telegraph or throw unrealistic strikes at a more advanced student. Although many beginning students will telegraph their punch, but only until they become skilled in technique. Further, in this particular style blocks, parries, atemi [the various kicks and punching drills] as well as joint locks are an integral part of the training. And almost forgot to add that it also includes becoming adept at defending against an attacker brandishing a weapon.

:asian: :asian:

 

[Jas]

I work in a maximum security prison in New York State (Attica), I have used Aikido twice to defend myself from an attacking inmate, and it don't get more real than that!!!!!!!

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Jas

I work in a maximum security prison in New York State (Attica), I have used Aikido twice to defend myself from an attacking inmate, and it don't get more real than that!!!!!!!

Were these grabs? Punches? Weapon atatcks?

I have no doubt about aikido's effectiveness against certain attacks, but I did it for a year and I too felt iffy about defending punches. A committed punch was OK but not a quick, boxer-style punch that didn't stay out there long enough to grab a hold of. Of course, this was only a year's training in the art!

 

[Eraser]

ok here's my 2 cents...


I believe that (and im sure there will be exceptions to my beliefs) that Most attackers are so focused on the attack.. that they themselves don't plan if something goes wrong.. hmm what i mean is.. if the attackers energy is focusing on wether its his fist, knife, strike.. they are hoping to connect with that first blow.. (as appose to boxing like jabs) So if you can avoid or use his energy.. then it works for you!!

And if you find youself in a confrontation with a boxer.. WHAT WERE YOU DOING THERE!! lol

I study Hapkido now.. but i did take Aikido for 2 years.. I loved using the attacker's own energy against themselves..

As for wether its a punch, grab or strike.. with time in your training you should learn to defend against them all..

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Bushido

I think that the way aikidoka throws punch are unrealistic. They "give" their arm to the defender. If an aikidoka had to defend himself on the streets vs punch, he would have an enormous surprise. Give the attacker a pair of light-impact gloves and make him attack, you'll see. I think it would be nice to re-think the way aikidoka punch to adapt it to real self-defence and keep aikido evolving bacause, like Christian Tissier Sensei said: "Aikido should not be a conclusion, a rigid responce, it should flow and adapt to modern day people in its defensive form".

Peace

-Bushido

If an Aikidoka trows an unrealistic punch, then that's the problem. But like most MA I know of, you start off with basics: simple punches, movements and so on. Nothing that you can "use" on the street unless the person throws you the exact same attack.
So as you get better, the attacks get harder and more difficult.

The Aikido I pratice emphesizes on flow, and alot of the basics are "made" to give you the understanding of flow. But the self defence part is not forgotten. Sorry to say, a lot of aikido people get "stuck " in the flowing part, and then this can become something unrealistic.

I think you have to remember that the MA is no better than the person doing it.


/Yari

 

[Bushido]

I respect your point :asian:, but even having seen high level Aikido Masters in action, it is still unrealistic to me. There is no way an aikidoka will grab "wild punchs" street type attacks. NO way. In a real confrontation, there is not only one big punch thrown that you can use against the attacker, there is a serie of fast wild punch. Aikido against grabs is awesome, I admit that. The real world is not West Side Story, it is simple, direct, brutal.

-Bushido :samurai:

 

[old_sempai]

:asian:

The purpose of blocking, or parrying is to deflect or redirect, execute atemi and finish with technique. We could talk this to death, but the fact that JAS is a corrections officer and has used this in his work in a prison full of hard cases contradicts the belief that Aikido is "ineffective." As for his, and my style - Nihon Goshin many times I use the analogy that our style is not unlike the moves demonstrated by Seigal in some of his movies.

For myself, I know this style is effective since I had occassion to use it in an encounter that took place about 8 years ago in a crowded shopping mall. And the first two witnesses on scene within a minute of the confrontation were 2 off-duty cops that had no idea that I had done a technique. They thought the guy swung so hard that he had missed and landed on his butt. Looking back it was interesting to note that the poor guy never knew what happened, all he thought was that an over fifty guy somehow was able to duck his punch. As they say: "Never let the mark know he's been had." Besides I didn't relish going to court and having a defense lawyer know I'm a trained MA, then he would have lunched all over me on behalf of his "poor, misguided" client having been taken advantage of.

:asian: :asian:

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Bushido

The real world is not West Side Story, it is simple, direct, brutal.

-Bushido :samurai:

And so is Aikido.

You have to remember that Aikido is not only praticed for selfdefense. But Aikido has many aspects which different people cultivate.

Can you tell me what Aikido is, and what it stands for? Because my understanding of Aikido is it's principles, and principles can be used on any attack, which also is my experience and belife.


Respect
Yari

 

[arnisador]

I think old_sempai makes a couple of good points--one being that a block per se need not be done but that a punch could be redirected; the other is that such a technique may make the person look like they did this to themselves--avoiding certain legal issues.

 

[old_sempai]

:asian:

Arnisador recognized each point:

First; Aikido is effective, but its effectiveness depends on many factors. Physical training along with mental development such as Musin muso, sen-no-sen, go-no-sen, etc.

Second; the fact that a trained MA can suddenly find themselves in a legal firestorm when a defense lawyer begins presenting their client as a victim BECAUSE your training also includes noble aspects of "Universal Harmony," and he would go on and on and on, ad naseum, possibly convincing the court that you could have avoided all of what transpired, blah - blah - blah.

Not unlike the true story about a farmer in Idaho in the 70's that got tired of being robbed when he wasn't home. Rigged a shotgun and when the same burglar broke in and was shot subsequently sued the farmer for his injuries. The Burglar won his case.

Let me leave you with something I came across some 35 odd years ago while in the Navy. There is a maxim written by Alfred Mahan that went something like this: "Its good thing to have been tried in court and found "not guilty," but its better not to have been charged at all."

Something to think about with regard to MA and the Law.

:asian: :asian: