Don't understand

[terryl965]

I myself do not understand all the politics involve in martial art, are we turning this art into let say baseball, basketball or any other money motivating sport that is out there. I see so many Dojo that are in a fitness center or a workout gym, with all this fancy equipment for building muscle, what happen, why and when....... God Bless America

 

[Cruentus]

Not sure what your asking about... :idunno:

 

[terryl965]

is MA turning out to be money motivated like all other sports??????

 

[Tgace]

That bell was rung years ago....yes.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Commercial Martial arts have always been about money.
Sean

 

[Cruentus]

is MA turning out to be money motivated like all other sports??????

No. I think personal ego plays a huge role also.

The key is, finding people to train with who are not just money or ego motivated.

:asian:

 

[7starmantis]

It is sad the amount of dojo or MA schools that are turning into nothing but pure money motivated businesses. However, money isn't all bad, a school with a large budget can do alot more to help you in your journey with MA. For a school owner who runs his school full time without another job, money is a fact of life and his school must be profitable in order for him and his family to eat. I do think however that there is a fine line between making money with your school and being completely money motivated. The problem is when the motivation to make money becomes stronger than the motivation to teach quality martial arts. Where is this line? Its hard to find and is a daily search I believe, but finding it is the true measure of a successful full time school.

7sm

 

[terryl965]

7 Starmantis I Agree hole Hearted you hit the nail on the head

 

[Shinzu]

when it comes to making money. people will always find the quickest and cheapest way to do it. this includes fancy demonstrations with no knowledge at all. its all about flash and making the cash. this is why it is important to search for a good quality school. this could takes weeks or months, but is well worth it in the long run.

there are people out there who teach just for the love of it. they are a dying breed but if you look hard enough they will be found.

 

[c2kenpo]

there are people out there who teach just for the love of it. they are a dying breed but if you look hard enough they will be found.

Choke.......chough.....hack...... wheeze........

:boing2:

Unfortunatly nothing in the world is pure for long.. we can only strive for perfection once again.

David Gunburg

 

[Shinzu]

i dont think my post was out of line, nor deserved a comment of such. you opinion is yours and mine is mine.

 

[Marginal]

I myself do not understand all the politics involve in martial art, are we turning this art into let say baseball, basketball or any other money motivating sport that is out there. I see so many Dojo that are in a fitness center or a workout gym, with all this fancy equipment for building muscle, what happen, why and when

Politics are largely a result of over inflated egos. Money's a result of needing to keep the training hall open, and weights etc are part of conditioning which any MAist needs to do anyway if they wanna be anywhere near effective.

 

[TigerWoman]

The politics in martial arts that I see are at tournaments. When the master putting on the tournament invites other organizations, their master and black belts become the judges and competitors at that tournament. In return for coming to his tournament, that master has to go to their tournaments reciprocally getting his black belts to go and work. If it was only that simple. The master putting on the tournament wants the visiting black belts "happy" so that they return. I've seen alot of judging that left me feeling that politics - keeping visiting black belts happy - were in play. As far as the money and gymnasium aspects, its been said before. Money keeps the doors open. Equipment helps us train smarter and quicker.

 

[loki09789]

I don't want to burst an ideolistic bubble here but martial arts training has always and ever will be about money/collateral in some way. Shaolin monks supported rulers and gained favor, protection and reputation (political collateral).

Military forces practice martial skill to expand/protect the profits/interests of the countries they swear loyalty to....

LEO's/Fed Enforcement creates stability which leads to material productivity and wealth....

All of the above examples, as well as well run, legitimate commercial martial arts schools work with a purpose and mission/philosophy. The problem is when the outward trappings (money, trophies, tournament reputation, flash for its own sake) become MORE important than the original mission. In well run, sound programs (whether commercially structured or just a bunch of people who work out) view the 'success' of the program as validation that they are on the right track NOT the goal of being on the right track.

Commercial martial arts schools that are primarily profit driven are just as bad as a priest who cares more about the gold in his robe or the police department that measures it's productivity only in arrests and tickets only or the school district/building that cares more about scores on a single test than the overall education of the students.... all of these are too busy grasping for the material collateral instead of accomplishing the mission. The 'thing' becomes the mission. That's when people get lost along the way.

Commercial schools aren't necessarily 'bad' because they exist. They can be 'bad' if they feed false hopes of becoming the next Chuck Norris/Bruce Lee.... or that they will prepare you to be the 'ultimate fighter'.....

False presentation, false confidence, false pride.... all these things can exist in any organization whether a garage training group or the biggest "McDojo" chain out there.

I think some of the intrinsic benefits/intangible qualities that some of the commercially successful schools promote to families, youth and those who would otherwise never get the chance challenge themselves are good. The fitness/activity aspect is positive as well as the social aspect.

I think it is an epidemic of the current Western culture in general that makes profit and 'things' the end goal in and out of martial arts.

 

[Shinzu]

money doesn't ruin things... greed does. that is where the problems start, and the love for it gets pushed aside.

 

[MichiganTKD]

The American mentality that we measure success by how much money you make has had a very detrimental effect on martial arts practice. Your going to find lousy teaching anywhere. However, it is the American preoccupation with money, success, and ego that elevates the commercial aspect of martial arts at the expense of the traditional teachings.
Because of the American influence we have colored/flashy uniforms, shelves full of medals and trophies, Instructors standing in line to be the next guy on the magazine cover, students getting conned into buying contracts and products they don't need, and so called "Masters" and "Grandmasters" stroking their egos with phony ranks, shady credentials, and inflated titles. All of this serves to cheapen traditional martial arts and turn it into just another commodity to be bought and sold rather than striving for a higher way of acting and thinking.
I was never a huge fan of Chuck Norris by the way.

 

[terryl965]

Well spoken MichiganTKD Well Spoken.... God Bless America

 

[loki09789]

The American mentality that we measure success by how much money you make has had a very detrimental effect on martial arts practice. Your going to find lousy teaching anywhere. However, it is the American preoccupation with money, success, and ego that elevates the commercial aspect of martial arts at the expense of the traditional teachings.

I was never a huge fan of Chuck Norris by the way.

But, isn't the idea that some components of traditional training are adaptations of aristocratic/caste cultures just as detrimental to the 'spirit' of martial training that we all ideolize in some way? The Bushido Code didn't get codefied until well into a state of national peace. The Chivalric code the same way. Martial arts has always been done for some purpose of improvement - whether material or spiritual/personal.

I think it is just as detrimental to martial training to impose some 'art for art's own sake' or 'sacredness' to martial arts training that may never have actually been there - but we have created because it is a haven from all the materialistic, menial humdrum goals that we don't see as noble or honorable?

Look at the amount of complaints here about instructors (poor or rich doesn't matter) who take on the trappings of a grand master/chieftain/king/lord just because they have spent more time learning to kick and punch when the true qualities of leadership are never really trained or developed. I don't think the ego problem is strictly American/Western. I think it is just human. I remember the Mushashi movies with Toshiro Mifune where there was a young boy who stole the title scroll awarding the bearer the social rank of samurai and was praised by his peasant family for it. There are esteem issues/social climbers in any culture.

 

[loki09789]

I can't honestly say that I 'know' what martial training was really like in the past, but I can make some educated guesses.

As far as the modern structure of martial training, it really follows the model of all those great "ragged boy/girl" stories like Cinderella or King Arthur.

We enter a program humble and clumsy, at the bottom of the pecking order. Much like the first images of the hero in the above tales.

We face challenges and are put in stressful circumstances with the goal of testing our skills to see if we are good enough or not to rise to the next level/challenge. If we fail, we are faced with the internal battles of doubt and disappointment.... If we succeed we have earned a better seat at the table.... and so on until we accomplish that personal image/goal of 'hero' by attaining a certain place/rank in the structure.

That is what the commercial schools will peddle if they have no soul or desire to truly improve people who come through the door. They are selling the "personal hero" experience. They are pushers of the drug of false imaging and are getting paid by the addicts who don't understand what is happening and don't think that they can get that level of fulfillment anywhere else. Somewhere in the scam, they will tell people that they can really defend themselves 'on the street' and that they have gained some 'inner strength' even though they have only and ever learned to kick and punch on the studio floor....

 

[OC Kid]

I think commerical M/A has and always will be about ego and $$$. thats what the dojo wars back in the early 70s were all about. A say kung fu studio would open up and a karate guy ( just plug in the sytle) would run over and challege the instructor and sometimes bring his entire class. There used to be some major brawls back then.
It was all about my sytle is better then yours and you are coming into my turf and taking taking my student base.
The only things that change now is the fleecing of the students in some schools . The good ones will be there for a long time. The "commerical" ones come and go.

But now days it does take a lot I mean alot of money to operate a school with the cost of insurance, rent/mortgage utilites and the instructor working for more than minium wage and if it is his sole source of income well theres health benefits, retirement, SSN , W/C lots of things.

I teach now a few disadvantaged kids from my home. Only about 4-5 for free. I trying to keep them away from the commericial end of it. Just teaching pure martial arts as a way of life for them, hoping that learning the way will help them succeed in life and stay away from gangs/drugs ect.