Don't tell them you know martial arts

[Drose427]

So you're saying that Krav Maga and other street-based martial arts don't advocate punching and kicking a downed target on the neck or head "if necessary"?



Then you're simply arguing semantics.



And armbar isn't going to kill anyone. A stomping kick to the throat definitely could.



What?



The argument was that a choke is some super dangerous act that can kill someone in a matter of seconds. I was simply correcting that faulty logic. Especially since it was coming from people who are perfectly fine with punching or stomping someone in the face while they're on the ground.

Generally? no.

Go to any Street SD based seminar (be it for leos, women sd, or krav) and theyre gonna tell you once hes downed or incapacitated, you leave.

You try to grab me, I throw you, while youre sprawling in pain. I leave, find help, or both.

I hit you, you go down, I take the chance to leave.

You're average Street SD instructor isnt telling anyone to sit and beat on someone "if necessary" because frankly, in SD thats idiotic.

1.. Cops show up now Im the aggressor getting tased

2. Oh look, its billy the bandits brother or friends, now Im getting killed.

3. its just elongating the situation, which is the exact opposite goal of SD 101.


Again, nobody advocates a stomp to the throat for SD.

If you think Combatitves and SD are simply semantics, you're naive. By you're logic we should just be sending our troops to womens SD classes and save millions!

obviously I meant "wouldnt" and it was a typo, but comprehension isnt one of youre strong points I guess.

Nobody said a choke could kill in a matter of seconds, but it isnt some super safe method that makes it difficult to cause any serious harm. But hey whatever makes BJJ sound better right?

andddd one more time for good measure, nobody here has advocated striking or stomping an opponent who is already down. Actually several people in this thread have said quite the opposite. Once again, you're making up ideas when you have little actual experience.

 

[Drose427]

Speaking as a person who has quite a bit experience stopping takedowns, I can assure you that you're not stopping a DLT attempt with that kind of kick.

If anyone on here believes that they can, then they clearly don't know more about that than I do.

Again, the clip with that kick had nothing to do with a DLT XD

The attacker was already on his back

You''re making up scenarios here.

You can shutdown a guys shot for a DLT pretty dang well with strikes, but nobody (other than you of course) has endorsed doing so with a kick.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Um. No, just no! You can't go around killing bullies because they deserve it.

In some cases you can. If you're in danger of death or grave bodily harm you can use deadly force.

I think you need to look at exactly what constitutes bullying. In the most extreme case it probably is present in domestic violence and yes, occasionally the victim has killed the perpetrator.

In Australia we have just got rid of the defence of provocation where the bully has killed his victim because allegedly the victim provoced the bully. In effect that is what you are advocating in reverse.

No Im not. Im not saying a would be victim should keep beating on the bully if the bully is no longer a threat but they shouldn't get in trouble for using necessary force to stop the threat.

 

[Hanzou]

Again, the clip with that kick had nothing to do with a DLT XD

The attacker was already on his back

You''re making up scenarios here.

I'm talking about his vid ace;

You can shutdown a guys shot for a DLT pretty dang well with strikes, but nobody (other than you of course) has endorsed doing so with a kick.

See above.

 

[PhotonGuy]

No not ANY level of force but an appropriate level to stop the threat your correct.

Well obviously I can't shoot a woman for slapping me but if a grown man in any way gets physical with me I shouldn't get in trouble for using my bare hands to stop him.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Id break out the Taser

Those don't always work and they're illegal in some places.

 

[PhotonGuy]

then Im in my bed since thats just about the only time Im unarmed. And in that case IM not detaining anyone

The bleeding heart liberals would coin you a coward for always having to be armed. Not that I would agree with them but that would be their take on it.

 

[ballen0351]

Well obviously I can't shoot a woman for slapping me but if a grown man in any way gets physical with me I shouldn't get in trouble for using my bare hands to stop him.

Depends on what you do with your hands. If a guy walks up slaps you and walks away you cant do anything other then report it and file charges

 

[ballen0351]

Those don't always work and they're illegal in some places.

OK

 

[drop bear]

Well in that case there's nothing you can really do. Anything done physically to a person like that could kill them, much less a choke.

Correct. But in the eyes of the law you can still be the bad guy.

I agree with you that hitting is a much more uncontrolled method of stopping someone than choking.

And after a while,once you cut out anything that is potentially lethal you are essentially left with harsh words pretty much.

And another reason I don't like compliant training. Because it gets used as the base for effective self defence. What that does is present an unrealistic idea of what will work based mostly on industry trainers trying to scam a buck.

So when you wind up in court for choking someone. You then have to climb this mountain explaining why you didn't just catch their punch out of mid air and wrist lock them like you have been trained.

 

[ballen0351]

The bleeding heart liberals would coin you a coward for always having to be armed. Not that I would agree with them but that would be their take on it.

And?

 

[PhotonGuy]

Depends on what you do with your hands. If a guy walks up slaps you and walks away you cant do anything other then report it and file charges

How about if I was to block the slap and counter?

 

[PhotonGuy]

And?

Just pointing that out. Its good to be able to say something to counter their accusation.

 

[ballen0351]

How about if I was to block the slap and counter?

Then in this state you both could be charged with assault

 

[Hanzou]

Generally? no.

Go to any Street SD based seminar (be it for leos, women sd, or krav) and theyre gonna tell you once hes downed or incapacitated, you leave.

You try to grab me, I throw you, while youre sprawling in pain. I leave, find help, or both.

I hit you, you go down, I take the chance to leave.

You're average Street SD instructor isnt telling anyone to sit and beat on someone "if necessary" because frankly, in SD thats idiotic.

1.. Cops show up now Im the aggressor getting tased

2. Oh look, its billy the bandits brother or friends, now Im getting killed.

3. its just elongating the situation, which is the exact opposite goal of SD 101.


Again, nobody advocates a stomp to the throat for SD.

If you think Combatitves and SD are simply semantics, you're naive. By you're logic we should just be sending our troops to womens SD classes and save millions!

So again, are you saying that arts like Krav never teach students to stomp or punch a downed opponent? In every Krav vid i've posted, they're hitting downed targets.

Nobody said a choke could kill in a matter of seconds..

Again, you did;

Yes, because in a controlled, safe environment people let go, and people usually tap long before starting to lose consciousness. Or the ref ends it and they get broken up.

All it takes is to hold on for a few extra seconds and damage absolutely starts to set in.

 

[drop bear]

Id break out the Taser

 

[ballen0351]

and? nothing is 100%

 

[drop bear]

You keep saying "punching or kicking someones face into the concrete" but nobody else in this thread has endorsed, or stood by doing so for SD, not sure why you're making an argument based on a point nobody has made. XD

In combatives, yes it would be normal to "stomp into the concrete"

On the same coin, nobodys letting go of an armbar in combatives either XD

Even when K-man explained, you would be repeatedly beating them over and over, because theyd no longer be a threat long before that, you keep clinging to that argument.

You're trying to look for an argument, thats apples to oranges and nobody has made, using a youtube video so you can brag about BJJ.

if you're gonna contribute and ask for explanations pay attention to the ones given

It gets done from a sideways sidle. You teach ground stomps you then stress that a street fight is super serious life or death. You create a non sport,rules,ref,mentality.

Suggesting that you are not setting up over reactions is dishonest

 

[drop bear]

and? nothing is 100%

Ok. So then we are back to the validity of unarmed techniques and can move away from the gun ego stroking?

 

[Drose427]

I'm talking about his vid ace;

See above.

Well then I apologize for that post

But still,

If you catch them pre shot like that and connect HARD, that will absolutely stop them.

We've seen fighters in MMa get hit with strikes like that while going for a leg or clinch and ger dropped. What do you think will happen to the average joe?

I do it to many of my BJJ friends who dont set up takedowns properly.

Mid shot, eh maybe. Really only if you're lucky enough to hit the button on the chin and put them on their back. Usually at that point its hard to extend properly and makes it significantly less effective.

So again, are you saying that arts like Krav never teach students to stomp or punch a downed opponent? In every Krav vid i've posted, they're hitting downed targets.



Again, you did;

No thats not what I said. Heck one of those videos very blatantly is focusing on combative......

Mild Brain damage can begin to seep in in as little as one minute without blood flow to bring it oxygen, I've seen very few people start to pass out in bragged 3-5 secs. Its nearly always closer to 20-25, even at the gracie school I go to every now and then.

not to mention theyre worse for anemics.

Also note how I said "extra seconds" because you know, not letting go after they already passed out was what I was talking about, not overall choke time.