Does the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu still exist?
- Thread starter Tensei85
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Legendary Wolf
White Belt
Hello,
Hmmm, cannot say that I have heard of her or it.....
Heard of this one though......
http://yagyu-shinkage-ryu.jp/yagyu_e.html
Oh that Hidetsuna!
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
Hmmm, cannot say that I have heard of her or it.....
Heard of this one though......
http://yagyu-shinkage-ryu.jp/yagyu_e.html
Oh that Hidetsuna!
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
Masshiro
Yellow Belt
yes the yagyu school is still in business in japan. it is taught by Sono Seiko in osaka and Yagyū Kōichi Toshinobu in nagoya. as far as i know yagyu shinkage ryu is not a ninjutsu style, unless you are thinking about satsujin-ken which predates when the school was givin to Yagyū Munetoshi.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi,
The Yagyu Shinkage Ryu is a very well known and respected Koryu system, best known for being the school of the Tokugawa Shoguns personal instructors. It did include aspects of ninjutsu in it's curriculum, the same way schools such as the Katori Shinto Ryu did, but it is by no means a ninjutsu school. It focuses primarily on swordsmanship, and is currently in it's 21st Generation under the 21st head Yagyu Nobuharu Soke.
As for someone claiming to teach Yagyu Ryu Ninjutsu, let alone a 30-year old (of any gender), I would be very dubious. But the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, yes it is still taught.
The Yagyu Shinkage Ryu is a very well known and respected Koryu system, best known for being the school of the Tokugawa Shoguns personal instructors. It did include aspects of ninjutsu in it's curriculum, the same way schools such as the Katori Shinto Ryu did, but it is by no means a ninjutsu school. It focuses primarily on swordsmanship, and is currently in it's 21st Generation under the 21st head Yagyu Nobuharu Soke.
As for someone claiming to teach Yagyu Ryu Ninjutsu, let alone a 30-year old (of any gender), I would be very dubious. But the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, yes it is still taught.
Legendary Wolf
White Belt
Hello,
Nobuharu sensei passed away two years ago.. The current soke is Yagyu Koichi Taira Toshinobu, 22nd Headmaster.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Thank you. My most recent info on Yagyu Shinkage Ryu is about 6 years old (I've focused on others and unfortunately let it slide...), I appreciate the update.
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ElfTengu
Blue Belt
And don't forget Yagyu Shingan Ryu, which is definitely taught alongside ninpo ryuha by none other than Tanemura Sensei of the Genbukan.
The thing about ninjutsu is that sometimes it appears to be an ad adendum to a formal bujutsu ryuha, and sometimes arises as a ryuha in its own right, and sometimes somewhere in between, as in Hattori Ryu.
The thing about ninjutsu is that sometimes it appears to be an ad adendum to a formal bujutsu ryuha, and sometimes arises as a ryuha in its own right, and sometimes somewhere in between, as in Hattori Ryu.
Dave Leverich
Black Belt
I read the title of this as Yagyu Shrinkage...
Needless to say, I started looking for Yagyu's.
Needless to say, I started looking for Yagyu's.
Dale Seago
Black Belt
I read the title of this as Yagyu Shrinkage...
Needless to say, I started looking for Yagyu's.
Couldn't find 'em 'cause of too much shrinkage?
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Just to be sure, though, Yagyu Shingan Ryu and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu are quite different systems. From another of my posts here:
"Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Heiho is primarily a school of swordsmanship famous for supplying the Tokugawa Shoguns with teachers (Yagyu Munenori being probably the most famous). It was founded by Yagyu Munetoshi (Munenori's father, if memory serves), from the original source school of Shin Kage Ryu founded by Kamiizumi Ise-no Kami Nobutsuna in the mid-to-late 1500's (the official date of Yagyu Shinkage Ryu's founding is 1658 in most sources). Kamiizumi had based the Shinkage Ryu on the teachings of Kage Ryu, and had also trained in some other very famous systems, such as Kashima Ryu and Katori Shinto Ryu. He named his system Shin Kage Ryu (New Kage Ryu).
Yagyu trained in this Shin Kage Ryu and attained Menkyo Kaiden (full Mastership). He later (along with his son Munenori) introduced his art to Tokugawa Ieyasu, future ruler of Japan. Tokugawa was highly impressed, and employed the Yagyu family to be the official Swordsmanship Instructor for the Shogunate. He then founded his own system, which he called Yagyu Shinkage Ryu. Munetoshi's son Munenori has a number of famous stories about his skill, and his teaching methods, including meetings of mutual respect with the great Musashi Miyamoto. It is said that Yagyu Munenori helped Musashi in his research of two sword techniques, and the two of them also developed techniques to defeat two swords when only armed with one, known as Nito Yaburi. This is still taugth in one branch of the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu today.
In another branch, there exists a system of Iai (sword drawing), which is taught alongside the regular curriculum, known as Yagyu Seigo Ryu battojutsu, as well as another branch teaching Jo (4 foot staff) techniques by the name of Jubei no Jo, named after Yagyu Jubei, a popular character in Japanese books and film.
Yagyu Shingan Ryu, on the other hand, is a completely seperate Martial System. It was founded in the early 1600's by Araki Mataemon, according to the Goto-ha branch, also known as the Edo line, which refers to itself as Yagyu Shingan Ryu Taijutsu, although they also teach Kenjutsu, Bojutsu, Naginatajutsu, and Iaijutsu. It is said that Araki trained under Yagyu Munenori, and was such a gifted student that he was granted permission to use the name Yagyu in naming his own school by Yagyu Jubei.
The other popular line of Yagyu Shingan Ryu is refered to as Yagyu Shingan Ryu Heiho, and is based far more in armoured tactics. There are a number of unarmed sections, as well as weapon systems teaching Kenjutsu, Naginatajutsu, Bojutsu, Kamajutsu, Sojutsu, and others. This branch traces their origin back to Takenaga Hayato, who studied a number of systems, such as Toda Ryu (which exists in part today as Toda-ha Buko Ryu Naginatajutsu and Kiraku Ryu Jujutsu), Shindo Ryu, and Shingan Ryu. Shingan Ryu in particular was quite a hard system based in Sengoku period battlefield fighting, and was quite an influence on Hayato. Naming his own system Shingan Ryu (different characters), he travelled to Edo and met Yagyu Munenori, and was employed by the Sword Master. Again, the story tells that Hayato impressed Yagyu so much that he was given permission to use the name Yagyu in his own art, this time by Munenori."
Oh, and the Yagyu Shingan Ryu of Tanemura Sensei is just one aspect of the entire system. The unarmed alone is made up of 5 different sections: Suburi, Torite no Jutsu, Totte no Jutsu, Kogusoku Totte, Gyoi Dori, which can also be further divided into three groupings, Katchu Yawara, Kogusoku Yawara, and Suhada Yawara. Tanemura Sensei teaches the Katchu Yawara from the Suburi section, I believe, which he recieved from Sato Kinbei Sensei, not the entire system. Not that it isn't very worthwhile and interesting to learn, this is just to let you know.
George Kohler
Green Belt
Some comments...
The real name for Yagyu Shinkage-ryu is Shinkage-ryu. From my discussions with someone from that school is that outsiders usually call it Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, but in actuallity it is just called Shinkage-ryu. The founding date is 1568.
How would you know if that is all that is taught in Sato Kinbei Sensei's line? Have you actually practiced this line?
The real name for Yagyu Shinkage-ryu is Shinkage-ryu. From my discussions with someone from that school is that outsiders usually call it Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, but in actuallity it is just called Shinkage-ryu. The founding date is 1568.
How would you know if that is all that is taught in Sato Kinbei Sensei's line? Have you actually practiced this line?
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi George,
The use of the name "Yagyu Shinkage Ryu" is, as I understand you, the name used outside of the arts practitioners. That would be us, yes? As I said, it comes from an older system called Shinkage Ryu, and my feeling is that the name "Yagyu" was added in the same way that we have Tanemura-ha Togakure Ryu, for instance. Simply to differentiate between teachers and interpretations, as it were. By the same token, Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage Ryu is often refered to as simply Jikishinkage Ryu (it was originally called Kahima Shiden Ryu, by the way), both terms refer to the same collection of knowledge. In terms of the date, looking back at my source (Koryu Bujutsu: Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan), with the dates there, it could easily be a typo, and 1568 is correct. Koryu Bujutsu gives Kamiizumi Ise-no Kami Nobutsuna, with the Yagyu line being founded by Yagyu Munetoshi, hence the different names for the same school, as I said.
As for how I know that Sato Kinbei Sensei's line only includes the Katchu Yawara, I don't believe that is exactly what I said. I have seen demonstrations form Sato Kinbei's students which show not only the Jujutsu portion, but also some Bojutsu and a bit of Kenjutsu as well (although, for the record, the Bojutsu seems very similar to the alternate Yagyu Shingan Ryu line, the Edo branch, or Goto-ha Yagyu Shingan Ryu Taijutsu as opposed to the Heijutsu. But I could be wrong on that).
What I stated was that only the Katchu Yawara section was taught by Tanemura Sensei in the KJJR. This is based on the fact that in every single listing of the KJJR curiculuum I have read where the schools are described, Araki Shin Ryu is refered to as Kogusoku, Hontai Takagi Yoshin Ryu is refered to as Jujutsu, and Yagyu Shingan Ryu is refered to as Katcchu Yawara. If more is taught, I think that would be great, and I would love to see some of it, but all listing and all examples I have seen have only ever been from that one section. I mean no offence, and if wrong, I would love to learn more.
The use of the name "Yagyu Shinkage Ryu" is, as I understand you, the name used outside of the arts practitioners. That would be us, yes? As I said, it comes from an older system called Shinkage Ryu, and my feeling is that the name "Yagyu" was added in the same way that we have Tanemura-ha Togakure Ryu, for instance. Simply to differentiate between teachers and interpretations, as it were. By the same token, Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage Ryu is often refered to as simply Jikishinkage Ryu (it was originally called Kahima Shiden Ryu, by the way), both terms refer to the same collection of knowledge. In terms of the date, looking back at my source (Koryu Bujutsu: Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan), with the dates there, it could easily be a typo, and 1568 is correct. Koryu Bujutsu gives Kamiizumi Ise-no Kami Nobutsuna, with the Yagyu line being founded by Yagyu Munetoshi, hence the different names for the same school, as I said.
As for how I know that Sato Kinbei Sensei's line only includes the Katchu Yawara, I don't believe that is exactly what I said. I have seen demonstrations form Sato Kinbei's students which show not only the Jujutsu portion, but also some Bojutsu and a bit of Kenjutsu as well (although, for the record, the Bojutsu seems very similar to the alternate Yagyu Shingan Ryu line, the Edo branch, or Goto-ha Yagyu Shingan Ryu Taijutsu as opposed to the Heijutsu. But I could be wrong on that).
What I stated was that only the Katchu Yawara section was taught by Tanemura Sensei in the KJJR. This is based on the fact that in every single listing of the KJJR curiculuum I have read where the schools are described, Araki Shin Ryu is refered to as Kogusoku, Hontai Takagi Yoshin Ryu is refered to as Jujutsu, and Yagyu Shingan Ryu is refered to as Katcchu Yawara. If more is taught, I think that would be great, and I would love to see some of it, but all listing and all examples I have seen have only ever been from that one section. I mean no offence, and if wrong, I would love to learn more.
George Kohler
Green Belt
My posting on Shinkage-ryu was not to debunk you, it was more of a clarification... except for the founding date.
As for the bojutsu and kenjutsu that Sato Sensei taught, this came from Ueno Takashi who learned Yagyu Shingan-ryu taijutsu from Hoshino Tenchi.
Also, the correct name of the line that Sato Sensei taught is called Yagyu Shingan-ryu Heiho Kacchu Yawara.
As for the bojutsu and kenjutsu that Sato Sensei taught, this came from Ueno Takashi who learned Yagyu Shingan-ryu taijutsu from Hoshino Tenchi.
Also, the correct name of the line that Sato Sensei taught is called Yagyu Shingan-ryu Heiho Kacchu Yawara.
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JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/offer-li...?ie=UTF8&qid=1244838529&sr=8-1&condition=used
They will send it to America.
http://www.shinkageryu.com/content/kankou.html
You can go there and see the book store that sells it which is:
◆取扱い書店
　「高山書店」
　東京都千代田区神田神保町２－３神田古書センター１Ｆ
　TEL： (03)-3261-2661
But when I went to their site:
http://www.narero.com/shotenitiran.html#kantou
I could not find Tokyo one. I am sure you can find a bookstore online from Japan.
They will send it to America.
http://www.shinkageryu.com/content/kankou.html
You can go there and see the book store that sells it which is:
◆取扱い書店
　「高山書店」
　東京都千代田区神田神保町２－３神田古書センター１Ｆ
　TEL： (03)-3261-2661
But when I went to their site:
http://www.narero.com/shotenitiran.html#kantou
I could not find Tokyo one. I am sure you can find a bookstore online from Japan.
Legendary Wolf
White Belt
Hello,
You may also want to give this book a look over..
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=27706&cat=&page=1
It has a decent section about "proper" motion and such. I also suggest looking at Shinkage-derivative arts as well.
You may also want to give this book a look over..
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=27706&cat=&page=1
It has a decent section about "proper" motion and such. I also suggest looking at Shinkage-derivative arts as well.
