Do you agree with his Taiji application?

[Kung Fu Wang]

This video shows the solo training of Taiji "grasp sparrow's tail" - ward off, pull back, press forward, push.

In the following video, he explains those 4 moves of the Taiji application. Someone makes this comment:

"This video has nothing to do with tai chi.
Apples tai chi.
Oranges what he is doing."

What's your opinion on this?

 

[windwalker099]

What's your opinion on this?

works for him....

For me, not a fan of grappling others might be, what is shown reflects this outlook.

Taiji was once called "touch boxing"
Some seem to have forgotten why this name was used

My application is different..
Similar to this.

 

[windwalker099]

Peter Ralston demos leading roll back...talks about the commonality of taiji
application's among other arts, practiced as fixed points, vs non-fixed

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

For me, not a fan of grappling

Ward off + outer hook
Pull back + leg spring
Press forward + sickle hook
Push + inner hook

"Push" + "leg skill" can change "push" into "throw". Do you think Taiji doesn't want to have anything to do with "throw"?

 

[Xue Sheng]

This video shows the solo training of Taiji "grasp sparrow's tail" - ward off, pull back, press forward, push.

In the following video, he explains those 4 moves of the Taiji application. Someone makes this comment:

"This video has nothing to do with tai chi.
Apples tai chi.
Oranges what he is doing."

What's your opinion on this?

Video 1, I don’t even like the way he is doing grasp the sparrows tail

Video 2, I agree with 1 & 2. 3 and 4 are BJJ or other style, not Taijiquan. Nothing wrong with them, good to know, but if it were me, at 3 I’d have gone for Kai (Shoulder). 4, if he steps again, I may just stomp on his foot and then Ji (press) or An (push).

The problem with looking at taijiquan applications, and this will not make me friends in the taiji world, but the problem is the arrogance that comes with it. I once worked with a guy who was, to be kind, pathetic in applications. I tried to correct him, I was actually teaching per request of my shifu (my 1st shifu) the guy stopped, looked at me, and said rather loudly... "I don't DO martial arts.... I do TAIJI!!!!!" and he turned and walked out the door.

It is not magic, it is training. I will say the application of taijiquan is a bit different than other styles, taijiquan tends to not force applications, just applies them. I have worked with several people using qinna, and I could always tell you when they were about to apply it, some I could stop, some I could not (couldn't stop Yang Jwing Ming). However my Yang Taijiquan Shifu, I could never tell, I was just locked.... asked him how he did that, his answer "You lock yourself". Meaning he is very aware of my position and when I am in the right one, he just applies a little pressure and I am locked.

 

[windwalker099]

However my Yang Taijiquan Shifu, I could never tell, I was just locked.... asked him how he did that, his answer "You lock yourself". Meaning he is very aware of my position and when I am in the right one, he just applies a little pressure and I am locked.

A key strategy enabled by the development of "correct" Taiji skill sets is adherence to the specific theory on which the Taiji style is based. "Correct" implies following the foundational principles of the Taiji style in question.

Historically, what is now known as Taiji was previously referred to by different names, one of them being "touch boxing."
The level of sensitivity the method is based on can be broken down into 3 levels.

after the action / neutralize
during the action / intercept
before the action / preempt

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This video shows the solo training of Taiji "grasp sparrow's tail" - ward off, pull back, press forward, push.

In the following video, he explains those 4 moves of the Taiji application. Someone makes this comment:

"This video has nothing to do with tai chi.
Apples tai chi.
Oranges what he is doing."

What's your opinion on this?

Those videos don’t show anything I recognize as useful.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Video 1, I don’t even like the way he is doing grasp the sparrows tail

Video 2, I agree with 1 & 2. 3 and 4 are BJJ or other style, not Taijiquan. Nothing wrong with them, good to know, but if it were me, at 3 I’d have gone for Kai (Shoulder). 4, if he steps again, I may just stomp on his foot and then Ji (press) or An (push).

The problem with looking at taijiquan applications, and this will not make me friends in the taiji world, but the problem is the arrogance that comes with it. I once worked with a guy who was, to be kind, pathetic in applications. I tried to correct him, I was actually teaching per request of my shifu (my 1st shifu) the guy stopped, looked at me, and said rather loudly... "I don't DO martial arts.... I do TAIJI!!!!!" and he turned and walked out the door.

It is not magic, it is training. I will say the application of taijiquan is a bit different than other styles, taijiquan tends to not force applications, just applies them. I have worked with several people using qinna, and I could always tell you when they were about to apply it, some I could stop, some I could not (couldn't stop Yang Jwing Ming). However my Yang Taijiquan Shifu, I could never tell, I was just locked.... asked him how he did that, his answer "You lock yourself". Meaning he is very aware of my position and when I am in the right one, he just applies a little pressure and I am locked.

Dr Yang is very skilled. I like being his demo dummy,I learn a lot faster the hard way.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Video 1, I don’t even like the way he is doing grasp the sparrows tail

Video 2, I agree with 1 & 2. 3 and 4 are BJJ or other style, not Taijiquan. Nothing wrong with them, good to know, but if it were me, at 3 I’d have gone for Kai (Shoulder). 4, if he steps again, I may just stomp on his foot and then Ji (press) or An (push).

The problem with looking at taijiquan applications, and this will not make me friends in the taiji world, but the problem is the arrogance that comes with it. I once worked with a guy who was, to be kind, pathetic in applications. I tried to correct him, I was actually teaching per request of my shifu (my 1st shifu) the guy stopped, looked at me, and said rather loudly... "I don't DO martial arts.... I do TAIJI!!!!!" and he turned and walked out the door.

It is not magic, it is training. I will say the application of taijiquan is a bit different than other styles, taijiquan tends to not force applications, just applies them. I have worked with several people using qinna, and I could always tell you when they were about to apply it, some I could stop, some I could not (couldn't stop Yang Jwing Ming). However my Yang Taijiquan Shifu, I could never tell, I was just locked.... asked him how he did that, his answer "You lock yourself". Meaning he is very aware of my position and when I am in the right one, he just applies a little pressure and I am locked.

I’m a year into consistent Qinna training with Dr Yang now, “ you lock yourself “ is certainly true, it just takes time to see the angles turn into opportunities. A few of these techniques come very naturally now but when I started I would never have seen the trouble I could be putting myself into.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This video shows the solo training of Taiji "grasp sparrow's tail" - ward off, pull back, press forward, push.

In the following video, he explains those 4 moves of the Taiji application. Someone makes this comment:

"This video has nothing to do with tai chi.
Apples tai chi.
Oranges what he is doing."

What's your opinion on this?

The application I learned was different. I'm not familiar with this application of it. Unfortunately I haven’t gone into this system like I have Jo Ga Kung Fu.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Those videos don’t show anything I recognize as useful.

This is the problem when people try to map form into application. Did the form creator think about this way? May be or maybe not.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

one of them being "touch boxing."

Are you saying that Taiji has no "throwing" in mind?

This is Chang Taiji application. My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin believes that Taiji can be trained both soft way and hard way. He created Yin Yang Taiji.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Are you saying that Taiji has no "throwing" in mind?

This is Chang Taiji application. My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin believes that Taiji can be trained both soft way and hard way. He created Yin Yang Taiji.

I learned grasping sparrows tail as a throw.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I learned grasping sparrows tail as a throw.

Pushing and pulling can be throwing if leg skill is added in. But Taiji people don't want to talk about leg skill.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Pushing and pulling can be throwing if leg skill is added in. But Taiji people don't want to talk about leg skill.

Well I’m not only tai chi people, but how can one have tai chi without leg skills? No foot, no root, no punch, no tai chi.

 

[windwalker099]

Are you saying that Taiji has no "throwing" in mind?

This is Chang Taiji application. My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin believes that Taiji can be trained both soft way and hard way. He created Yin Yang Taiji.

- His right foot points to southwest.
- His left foot points to southeast.

As far as I can remember, there is no such stance exist in CMA.

memory must not be so good...

As to what I wrote,, might want to, re read it...

Yin-Yang Taiji.

Strange name, seems kind of repetitive.
What taiji does not contain as a core concept

Expression's of it might be very different.

Hard and soft, has no real meaning in my own understanding of taiji.

 

[windwalker099]

Well I’m not only tai chi people, but how can one have tai chi without leg skills? No foot, no root, no punch, no tai chi.

All CMA trains what is mentioned.
Expressions and emphasis may vary. For example, between.
"yang" and "chen" stylist it's very different with many
wondering about the differences

What makes it taiji or not

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

All CMA trains what is mentioned.
Expressions and emphasis may vary. For example, between.
"yang" and "chen" stylist it's very different with many
wondering about the differences

What makes it taiji or not

Theoretically, you are correct, but there are many Charlatans, hucksters, and self deluded out there teaching half assed versions.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

All CMA trains what is mentioned.
Expressions and emphasis may vary. For example, between.
"yang" and "chen" stylist it's very different with many
wondering about the differences

What makes it taiji or not

I have only trained Yang style as far as Tai Chi Chuan goes.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Well I’m not only tai chi people, but how can one have tai chi without leg skills? No foot, no root, no punch, no tai chi.

I have never seen "inner hook" used in any Taiji video.