Denver & New Orleans

[MA-Caver]

Just got this in my e-mail today from a friend that lives near mile high city. Dunno if it's all accurate but it's a thought.

WEATHER BULLETIN - Denver
Up here, in the "Mile-Hi City", we just recovered from a Historic event--- may I even say a "Weather Event" of "Biblical Proportions" --- with a historic blizzard of up to 44" inches of snow and winds to 90 MPH that broke
trees in half, knocked down utility poles, stranded hundreds of motorists in
lethal snow banks, closed ALL roads, isolated scores of communities and cut
power to 10's of thousands.

FYI:

George Bush did not come.

FEMA did nothing.

No one howled for the government.

No one blamed the government.

No one even uttered an expletive on TV.

Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton did not visit.

Our Mayor did not blame Bush or anyone else.

Our Governor did not blame Bush or anyone else, either.

CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX or NBC did not visit - on this category 5
snowstorm. Nobody demanded $2,000 debit cards.

No one asked for a FEMA Trailer House.

No one looted.

Nobody - I mean Nobody demanded the government do something.

Nobody expected the government to do anything, either.

No Larry King, No Bill O'Rielly, No Oprah, No Chris Mathews and No Geraldo
Rivera.

No Shaun Penn, No Barbara Striesand, No Hollywood types to be found.

Nope, we just melted the snow for water.

Sent out caravans of SUV's to pluck people out of snow engulfed cars.

The truck drivers pulled people out of snow banks and didn't ask for a
penny.

Local restaurants made food and the police and fire departments delivered it
to the snowbound families.

Families took in the stranded people - total strangers.

We fired up wood stoves, broke out coal oil lanterns or Coleman lanterns.

We put on extra layers of clothes because up here it is "Work or Die".

We did not wait for some affirmative action government to get us out of a
mess created by being immobilized by a welfare program that trades votes for
'sittin at home' checks.

Even though a Category "5" blizzard of this scale has never fallen this
early, we know it can happen and how to deal with it ourselves.


I hope this gets passed on.

Maybe SOME people will get the message. The world does Not owe you a
living.

 

[DavidCC]

I haven't seen first hand either disaster, but you can't really be proposing that this Denver blizzard is comparable to the near-destruction of New Orleans, can you??

 

[mrhnau]

I haven't seen first hand either disaster, but you can't really be proposing that this Denver blizzard is comparable to the near-destruction of New Orleans, can you??

Both are natural disasters. Both were quite disasterous. I've been in both hurricanes and blizzards. Neither are very pleasant, but in different ways. Are they comperable? not directly, but both are pretty bad. BTW, its blizzards, not blizzard. Plural.

Regardless of the severity of the disaster, the basic tenets of the post remains, and are quite correct.

 

[CoryKS]

Both are natural disasters. Both were quite disasterous. I've been in both hurricanes and blizzards. Neither are very pleasant, but in different ways. Are they comperable? not directly, but both are pretty bad. BTW, its blizzards, not blizzard. Plural.

Regardless of the severity of the disaster, the basic tenets of the post remains, and are quite correct.

Second that. Back in '93 we had some pretty bad floods around here. I remember seeing footage of Bill Clinton flying over the aftermath and declaring it a disaster area so they could get federal funds to clean it up. Nobody seemed to fault him for not jumping into his cape and boots and freezing the water solid with his super breath the way they do now with Bush. Nobody got on tv and accused him of hating Midwesterners.

 

[Kacey]

Was it as bad in Denver as it was in New Orleans? Hardly - but as a resident of Denver, I can say it was pretty bad for several days. Most of the Front Range (basically, the I-25 corridor up the middle of the state) was declared a Federal Disaster Area. But people expect snow, and plan for it... hurricanes of that magnitude, not so much. It was a blizzard, no doubt about it, and covered a massive area - but it was within the parameters of "normal" storms. Much of the Front Range and the Eastern Plains (I-25 east to Kansas, north and south to the state lines) are still cleaning up - especially the ranchers, who can't get to their herds, so the National Guard is using their helicopters to drop feed. However, unlike New Orleans, there was not mass destruction of public and private property, and the city is habitable, if hard to get around in if you don't live on a main (plowed) street. The two events are like in kind, but not, I think, in degree.

 

[bydand]

I've seen this making the rounds for a couple of years now. while not true in same scale of distruction, and loss of city services it has a bit of thought provoking qualities about it.

 

[michaeledward]

Was it as bad in Denver as it was in New Orleans? Hardly - but as a resident of Denver, I can say it was pretty bad for several days. Most of the Front Range (basically, the I-25 corridor up the middle of the state) was declared a Federal Disaster Area. But people expect snow, and plan for it... hurricanes of that magnitude, not so much. It was a blizzard, no doubt about it, and covered a massive area - but it was within the parameters of "normal" storms. Much of the Front Range and the Eastern Plains (I-25 east to Kansas, north and south to the state lines) are still cleaning up - especially the ranchers, who can't get to their herds, so the National Guard is using their helicopters to drop feed. However, unlike New Orleans, there was not mass destruction of public and private property, and the city is habitable, if hard to get around in if you don't live on a main (plowed) street. The two events are like in kind, but not, I think, in degree.

Wait ... the middle of the State was declared a 'Federal Disaster Area'. Well, gee, doesn't that mean anything? Let's go to FEMA to find out.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=32927

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) today announced that federal aid has been made available to supplement state and local response efforts in the area struck by struck by record snow during the period of December 28-31, 2006.
FEMA Director David Paulison said federal funding is available to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, and to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in Otero County.
Paulison said that FEMA has been specifically authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.
Paulison named Connee Lloyd as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.
FEMA manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident, initiates mitigation activities and manages the National Flood Insurance Program. FEMA works closely with state and local emergency managers, law enforcement personnel, firefighters and other first responders. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003.

So, now that we have proven the second bullet point on this 'bullitin' false, do we need to examine each of the other claims ...

http://www.fema.gov/news/event.fema?id=7426

But let's boil it down to this ... Is the city of Denver still there?

 

[Kacey]

As I said, The two events are like in kind, but not, I think, in degree. Yes, it was an inconvenient and annoying several days, but there was not the widespread devastation that occurred in New Orleans, and that is, I think, the difference - even if the Denver metro areas was declared to be a disaster area, and still is, in places.

I saw this email too - in fact, several people sent it to me - and I declined to pass it on. While I understand the thinking that caused someone to write it, I do not feel that the comparison between the 2 events is valid... and honestly... after living in Denver for 20 years, and in Wisconsin for a decade prior to that... I've seen lots worse!

 

[DArnold]

Just got this in my e-mail today from a friend that lives near mile high city. Dunno if it's all accurate but it's a thought.

Not real accurate as many parts of the state have been declaired a disaster area by Bush and are now available for Federal Aid.

Feed is being delivered by helicopter to cattle.

On the first snow, emergency workers were required to stay at hospitals and paid by FEMA for the hours they stayed at hotels as many pulled 3 straight days.

An avalanch buried cars on I40 in the mountains prompting people to dig by hand or whatever they had to find cars.

The airport shut down and many were stranded for christmas basically throwing the US air industry out of whack.

So you trivialize someones pain by comparing it to someone elses?
I would immagine that pain and suffering is measured by the person being affected and not by some media comparison.
I don't believe that suffering is a race to be determined on a meter!

Just like when you spar...
Pain is measured by the receiver, not the giver.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Mod Note

Thread moved to The Study.

Pamela Piszczek
MT Sr. Moderator

 

[Marginal]

Just got this in my e-mail today from a friend that lives near mile high city. Dunno if it's all accurate but it's a thought.

Uh yeah. We suffered terribly. Had to walk to work a few times. That compares with losing a city.

 

[Kacey]

But let's boil it down to this ... Is the city of Denver still there?

Uh yeah. We suffered terribly. Had to walk to work a few times. That compares with losing a city.

Denver Metro is fine... if you count the fact that I, like many of my neighbors, can only get out to a plowed street because we shoveled our way out... not just our driveways, mind you, but the street itself, because the city doesn't have enough plows to remove snow... gotta love budget cuts.

The plains areas, however, are experiencing severe difficulties. At last estimate, at least 10% of the cattle on the eastern plains have died of starvation, and, due to the snow depth, the only way ranchers can feed them is feed drops from helicopters, currently being supplied by the National Guard. This will have a significant effect on the state's economy. Is is as significant as New Orleans? No. Does that make it insignificant? Also no. While Denver is (once you leave the side streets) clear of snow, there is more to this state than the Denver Metro area; a significant portion of the state has been declared to be a snow disaster area:

On Sunday, Bush declared a snow emergency for 13 counties - largely in the Interstate 25 corridor, with the exception of Washington County in northeast Colorado - walloped by the storms that hit Dec. 18 to Dec. 22. Only Otero County is eligible for federal aid from the Dec. 28 storm that killed thousands of head of cattle and left at least 4 feet of snow and drifts up to 15 feet high in the southeast corner of the state.

But hey - it's just 13 mostly agricultural counties, and only one qualifies (so far) for federal aid... blow it off because it didn't destroy a city. I am not saying that the effects are as significant as New Orleans - but neither are the effects minor. I have friends who are ranchers; they were already on the brink of bankruptcy, and this may well push them over the edge.

 

[michaeledward]

But hey - it's just 13 mostly agricultural counties, and only one qualifies (so far) for federal aid... blow it off because it didn't destroy a city. I am not saying that the effects are as significant as New Orleans - but neither are the effects minor. I have friends who are ranchers; they were already on the brink of bankruptcy, and this may well push them over the edge.

I don't think anyone is proposing that any other 'blow it off'.

The issue is that local government has taken some responsibilities - those that it can handle - such as plowing snow from the main thoroughfares. As for not enough snow removal equipment; remember that 'budget cuts' are synonomous with 'tax cuts'.

Where the local government is insufficient, the state government should step up. I understand the National Guard - which is deployed under orders of the State Governor - was dispatched to assist stranded travelers, as well as the feed drops.

Where the state government was insufficient, the federal government steps to the plate. Municiple and State Budgets that were overwhelmed by the storms can be replenished by requests through FEMA. And, I bet that those ranchers will have a program for compensation on their lost livestock soon enough.

Goverment worked, and is working, the way it is supposed to.

How many of those who are forwarding the email above - blamed all of New Orleans on Mayor Naygan - being certain to send around the pictures of the flooded buses. This email is just the illusion of the 'rugged individual', patting themselves on the back while they deny the workings of the government. People who craft messages like the one that started this thread see government as not just 'a' problem - but as 'THE' problem. Of course, their elected representatives will certainly have their hand out to the next higher branch of government; whether for helicopters or for cash.

I was in New Orleans in mid-May this past year - that was eight months after Katrina. I did not tour the entire city. But, in the parts of town, and the surrounding towns, that I did visit, I would estimate that between 40% and 50% of the businesses had not made any attempt of rebuilding. Businesses were boarded up, lots remain strewn with debris, although in some cases, it may have been piled relatively neatly on the lot.

Anyone want to speculate what Denver - or outlying Colorado - is going to look like in eight months, as a result of these snow storms?

 

[Tez3]

I thought that while New Orleans was triggered by natural forces the actual problem was a man made one due to the waters being held back artifically in the first place? We have places where people are flooded out every year, this is because they build on the rivers' natural flood plains where they should have built higher up.

 

[michaeledward]

I thought that while New Orleans was triggered by natural forces the actual problem was a man made one due to the waters being held back artifically in the first place? We have places where people are flooded out every year, this is because they build on the rivers' natural flood plains where they should have built higher up.

You are correct in that the flooding of New Orleans was triggered by the failure of the Levees built and maintained by the Army Corps of Engineers. Hurricane Katrina did make landfall as a Category three storm. Much of the damage to the Gulf Coast was caused by the storm and wind. Certainly, many of the areas I surveyed in May were outside of the levee flood zones, and they are still suffering.

Of course, much of that is because of how the region is tied together. Even if you're outside the city itself, many of the service providers have not returned, because of the destruction in New Orleans.

For example - there is a pretty big forestry business in the gulf coast area that was destroyed by the winds of Hurricane Katrina - Many acres of timberland were destroyed by natural forces.

 

[Marginal]

But hey - it's just 13 mostly agricultural counties, and only one qualifies (so far) for federal aid... blow it off because it didn't destroy a city. I am not saying that the effects are as significant as New Orleans - but neither are the effects minor. I have friends who are ranchers; they were already on the brink of bankruptcy, and this may well push them over the edge.

It is minor compared to what happened in New Oreleans. The email suggests they should be considered equal, but we pulled through exclusively by use of red blooded grit and a firm grip on our bootstraps. Who wrote that trash? Makes me think of a guy from Loveland.

 

[Kacey]

It is minor compared to what happened in New Oreleans. The email suggests they should be considered equal, but we pulled through exclusively by use of red blooded grit and a firm grip on our bootstraps. Who wrote that trash? Makes me think of a guy from Loveland.

I repeat: As I said, The two events are like in kind, but not, I think, in degree.

 

[michaeledward]

It probably had nothing to do with the Snow storms, and the economic challenges that those storms present for the city, but the Democratic Political Party has just announced that Denver will be the location for their 2008 Presidential Nominiting Convention.

That should help recoup some of the economic pain. In fact, there was a bit of a push from some of us fringe folks to select New Orleans as the site.