Defense Against The Full Nelson

[MJS]

Seems like we have a very good discussion going on regarding the bearhug defense. So, to continue on that path, I thought we could discuss defenses against the full nelson.

I'm going to go with my same comments as I made in the bearhug thread. A defense needs to begin right away. Waiting too long, and you could find yourself in a bad position.

So, thoughts on this?

Mike

 

[kamishinkan]

I had this conversation a few years ago with a gentleman that said the full nelson could not be countered. This flew in the face of my past experience so I had him put it on me, although he is quite a bit bigger, I simply reached up with both hands grabed his two pinky fingers, pressed them out to my full arms length (to the sides) and could have droped him most hard to my front. Finger presses are great equalizers! Seemed simple enough at the time. He agreed after he quit screaming!

 

[michaeledward]

When someone is attempting to apply a Full Nelson, I was taught to place the backs of both my hands against my forehead, elbows out. This will prevent, theoretically at least, the complete application of the attack.

From there, the scraping hoof, "kick - kick - stomp", would seem to be effective.

 

[MA-Caver]

I had this conversation a few years ago with a gentleman that said the full nelson could not be countered. This flew in the face of my past experience so I had him put it on me, although he is quite a bit bigger, I simply reached up with both hands grabed his two pinky fingers, pressed them out to my full arms length (to the sides) and could have droped him most hard to my front. Finger presses are great equalizers! Seemed simple enough at the time. He agreed after he quit screaming!

There is a kenpo technique that involves a counter to either a full lock nelson or at least an attempted nelson... not being a kenpoist I can't rightly recall what's name is and the moves involved with it...
But, yeah, if you're able to grab the pinkies by all means that little trick (out of several) ... err does the trick.

 

[HKphooey]

I have always been a big fan of attacking the knees.

 

[Makalakumu]

I would grapevine with my legs and start breaking fingers. If I could work a stomp into this, I would. The trouble with a full nelson is that someone can throw you with it, so its only a matter of time until it happens.

BTW - has anyone ever tried or thought of bending over quickly to see if they could throw them off?

 

[MA-Caver]

I would grapevine with my legs and start breaking fingers. If I could work a stomp into this, I would. The trouble with a full nelson is that someone can throw you with it, so its only a matter of time until it happens.

BTW - has anyone ever tried or thought of bending over quickly to see if they could throw them off?

I've done that but was unable to throw them off... so I grabbed (their) ankles and pulled as hard as I could... when once it didn't work I moved my hands up to the back of their knees and pulled them out. It messed up their intentions rawther quickly I'd say. But some guys... I've found out the hard-way... just don't bend as easily.

 

[Cryozombie]

When someone is attempting to apply a Full Nelson, I was taught to place the backs of both my hands against my forehead, elbows out. This will prevent, theoretically at least, the complete application of the attack.

From there, the scraping hoof, "kick - kick - stomp", would seem to be effective.

This is very similar to what we are taught

 

[SFC JeffJ]

When someone is attempting to apply a Full Nelson, I was taught to place the backs of both my hands against my forehead, elbows out. This will prevent, theoretically at least, the complete application of the attack.

From there, the scraping hoof, "kick - kick - stomp", would seem to be effective.

I have yet to have that fail for me. In the style I study, we also table the knee afterwards to take thier center.

Jeff

 

[BlackSheep]

I have never read of nor seen someone using a full nelson to win in a MMA or sub wrestling match.

I think the reason is:

1) It’s easy to avoid getting caught in a full nelson in the first place.
2) There are a number of reliable ways to break or neutralize the hold.
3) Full nelsons aren’t very useful holds and there are much better alternatives.

One escape from the full nelson (standing):

Step one; bull up your neck and grapevine one of his legs.
Step two; reach back and grab the pinky and ring finger and bend them back.

 

[RoninPimp]

Posture your head up, clamp his arms with your arms and Tai Otoshi. Or if you get free, your choice of standup or clinch 101.

 

[Flatlander]

Perhaps tear the aggressor's ear off, if you can get ahold of it.

 

[bignick]

When someone is attempting to apply a Full Nelson, I was taught to place the backs of both my hands against my forehead, elbows out. This will prevent, theoretically at least, the complete application of the attack.

From there, the scraping hoof, "kick - kick - stomp", would seem to be effective.

Even better, relax and reach for the ground...they can't even get halfway there...

 

[bushidomartialarts]

it's hard to get out of one if somebody who knows what they're doing is really pouring it on.

it's pretty easy to prevent somebody from locking it down, though -- complex hold with lots of early warning.

when someone tries to get it on, do three things at once:

drop your weight
punch straight downward with both hands
snap your head back and up

from there you have numerous options.

 

[dougp]

Waste of time training on a defense for this. If you get caught in a FN, you deserve to be there. But if you should get caught, throw/roll him, and you land directly on his chest in a great position for a finish cause his arm will be hanging out for the taking! Then you snap it in half!

 

[Hand Sword]

Go with the flow, bending down, while stepping behind their feet and take down.

 

[Franc0]

IMO, there are two types of full nelsons', the escapable version and the unescapable version. The escapable version is when the full nelson is applied by interlocking the fingers behind the head. This allows for several of the above mentioned methods of escape, with my favorite being the rip the fingers apart method. The second version (taught to me by Sensei Gene LeBell) is when applying the full nelson, the left hand hooks onto the right wrist, lowering the elbows and pushing forward with the right palm. When this was put on me, the pain was excruciating, and the slightest attempts at escaping just brought on even more pain. To this day I have yet to have anyone escape, and I've used it many times at the nightclub I moonlight at. To me, the optimal defense is to keep the person from getting it on you to begin with, again mentioned in some of the above replies.

Franco

 

[Hand Sword]

Absolutely. Prevention is the best policy. All in favor of awareness?

 

[Ross]

A point so far over looked is that the full nelson will not be applied from a static position. There will be an initial bump from behind (or continuous forward movement) as the attacker makes contact and applies the lock.

If you are travelling forward, being moved around and trying to regain your balance I would suggest that it is very difficult to effectively put in kicks to the shins that would be sufficient to release the grip to escape.

But it depends on how you train. I would suggest that if the attack was applied with force the technique may be inadequate.

Lastly, I have always had an issue with the "using your periphery/awareness" on any attack from the rear. There will always be instances when you can employ this - but do not rely on it, if you do get caught what are you going to do?

Just some points to keep the ball rolling...............

 

[HKphooey]

Ross, good point.

In the instance which I am forced forward, I would step one foot forward to stop the momentum and then deliver a low back kick to the knee. The forward movement (and step) actually sets me up for a stronger stance to deliver that kick.