Danzan Ryu - Japanese Jujutsu or Hawaiian Jujutsu?

Makalakumu

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I've been practicing the art of Danzan Ryu since 2002. I took a break in 2006 and picked it up again in 2008 when I moved to Hawaii. Currently, I hold the rank of ikkyu in the art.

Throughout my practice of this art, black belts and professors have described the art as Japanese Jujutsu. I've always felt that this wasn't a totally accurate description of the art, because the founder, Henry Okazaki, drew from a number of sources to form our lists.

As the story goes, Okazaki moved to Hawaii around the turn of the last century and began to study various martial arts in Hawaii. He learned Japanese jujutsu, he learned Okinawan Karate, he learned some Filipino Martial Arts, and he was able to learn Hawaiian Lua. All of these were the source material from which he composed the art that I practice today. They just so happen to be transmitted with kata and lists after the Japanese fashion of teaching.

Therefore, I think it could be argued that we are practicing Hawaiian jujutsu. As this island chain is one of the most diverse melting pots on earth, the art actually reflects this by drawing many of the martial traditions that came to the islands.

Besides, if the Brazilians can have their own form of Jujutsu, why can't Hawaii? I think if I ever teach this art, I will probably call it Hawaiian Jujutsu.

Thoughts?
 

puunui

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I think it is hawaiian jujutsu too, for the same reasons that you cite above.
 

Tanaka

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Well this is a real touchy subject. As some feel that the system/school has to be headquartered in Japan or come from a Japanese native/Japanese. Some feel that somewhere down the line you just need a Japanese connection. For instance if Kito Ryu is taken by a Westerner to Western lands. It's considered Japanese Jujutsu because Kito Ryu comes from Japanese natives or perhaps a Japanese who moved to western world. Now lets say you have a Westerner who studied under a Japanese school but took it to the western world and started his own school/system(with some variations added to it). Some may not consider it Japanese Jujutsu anymore, but a western jujutsu system.
 

Buka

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I've been practicing the art of Danzan Ryu since 2002. I took a break in 2006 and picked it up again in 2008 when I moved to Hawaii. Currently, I hold the rank of ikkyu in the art.

Throughout my practice of this art, black belts and professors have described the art as Japanese Jujutsu. I've always felt that this wasn't a totally accurate description of the art, because the founder, Henry Okazaki, drew from a number of sources to form our lists.

As the story goes, Okazaki moved to Hawaii around the turn of the last century and began to study various martial arts in Hawaii. He learned Japanese jujutsu, he learned Okinawan Karate, he learned some Filipino Martial Arts, and he was able to learn Hawaiian Lua. All of these were the source material from which he composed the art that I practice today. They just so happen to be transmitted with kata and lists after the Japanese fashion of teaching.

Therefore, I think it could be argued that we are practicing Hawaiian jujutsu. As this island chain is one of the most diverse melting pots on earth, the art actually reflects this by drawing many of the martial traditions that came to the islands.

Besides, if the Brazilians can have their own form of Jujutsu, why can't Hawaii? I think if I ever teach this art, I will probably call it Hawaiian Jujutsu.

Thoughts?

I have two thoughts. The first is yes, I think Hawaiian Jujutsu is a fine name. The martial arts world in Hawaii is different than anywhere else.

The second thought is - the Martial Arts Police will be all over your butt!
 
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Makalakumu

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Well this is a real touchy subject. As some feel that the system/school has to be headquartered in Japan or come from a Japanese native/Japanese. Some feel that somewhere down the line you just need a Japanese connection. For instance if Kito Ryu is taken by a Westerner to Western lands. It's considered Japanese Jujutsu because Kito Ryu comes from Japanese natives or perhaps a Japanese who moved to western world. Now lets say you have a Westerner who studied under a Japanese school but took it to the western world and started his own school/system(with some variations added to it). Some may not consider it Japanese Jujutsu anymore, but a western jujutsu system.

In our lists, there is an oral history for every technique. Our professor can pretty much explain where every technique comes from. So many techniques aren't even from Japanese jujutsu, yet the art is still viewed as such. I think Hawaiian jujutsu is more accurate and it could lead to some interesting marketing.

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Makalakumu

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I have two thoughts. The first is yes, I think Hawaiian Jujutsu is a fine name. The martial arts world in Hawaii is different than anywhere else.

The second thought is - the Martial Arts Police will be all over your butt!

Yeah, probably, but they've left me alone for the most part at this point. Lol!

The distinctness of Hawaii and its melting pot nature make it an interesting place to study martial arts. Right now, our sensei is trying to establish ties to the lua community, so we all learn some hula and the techniques that came from lua get a little extra practice. Also, we're really emphasizing the healing aspects of our art. The massage, pharmacology, and accupressure is something that makes Danzan Ryu distinctly Hawaiian. The healing aspects actually draw a lot of non-traditional martial artists into our dojo. For example, we actually have more women then men in most of our classes.

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk
 

Chris Parker

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First off, Jujutsu is Japanese, end of story. If it isn't Japanese, it isn't Jujutsu (and yeah, I'm including the Brasilian one there... it ain't Jujutsu either). Next, "Ryu" is a Japanese term denoting style, so again, if it's a "Ryu", it's Japanese, end of story.

However, "Danzan" is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese name for Hawaii, which basically means that the name translates as "Hawaiian style" Jujutsu. Hmm.

Honestly, I'd say that it's a Japanese-derived modern Western (Hawaiian) approach to Jujutsu-like methods. But that's a bit of a mouthful, so I'd more likely say that it's a modern Western (Hawaiian) system, and if asked, state that it traces itself back to Japanese Jujutsu systems, as well as other martial traditions through the founder Henry Okazaki.

But the purest in me says that it's either Jujutsu, which means it's Japanese, or it's not Japanese, which means it's not actually Jujutsu (albeit being remarkably similar).
 

puunui

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Y Right now, our sensei is trying to establish ties to the lua community, so we all learn some hula and the techniques that came from lua get a little extra practice.

That's a hard one, because I believe that you have to have native hawaiian blood to study lua. Or at least that is how it is now; I don't know how it was during Professor Okazaki's time.
 

puunui

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Honestly, I'd say that it's a Japanese-derived modern Western (Hawaiian) approach to Jujutsu-like methods. But that's a bit of a mouthful, so I'd more likely say that it's a modern Western (Hawaiian) system, and if asked, state that it traces itself back to Japanese Jujutsu systems, as well as other martial traditions through the founder Henry Okazaki.

Let me guess. You've studied Danzan Ryu Jujutsu, right? If not, how did you get your information regarding Danzan Ryu such that you can render the above opinion?
 

Chris Parker

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I can make such a statement because I'm an intelligent person who understands the categorisation of martial methods, and I'm familiar with a range of the arts that went into Danzan Ryu's formation, as well as with Danzan Ryu itself. This is hardly the first time I've come across it, you realize.

And I thought you were going to drop your little attacks and snide comments? After all, you know that it's been brought to the staff's attention here... But then again, that might be asking a bit too much of you.
 

puunui

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I can make such a statement because I'm an intelligent person who understands the categorisation of martial methods, and I'm familiar with a range of the arts that went into Danzan Ryu's formation, as well as with Danzan Ryu itself. This is hardly the first time I've come across it, you realize.

So, no you never studied Danzan Ryu, then?
 

puunui

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As the story goes, Okazaki moved to Hawaii around the turn of the last century and began to study various martial arts in Hawaii. He learned Japanese jujutsu, he learned Okinawan Karate, he learned some Filipino Martial Arts, and he was able to learn Hawaiian Lua. All of these were the source material from which he composed the art that I practice today. They just so happen to be transmitted with kata and lists after the Japanese fashion of teaching.

And I want to say that Professor Okazaki also studied judo, or at least he had dan ranking in judo.
 

Chris Parker

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(Sigh...) No, Glenn, I haven't trained in Danzan Ryu myself, nor have I claimed to. And weren't you accusing me of hot pursuit recently?
 

Buka

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How so, in your opinion?

I've been fortunate to travel over the years. I have never experienced a location where there were so many Martial Artists. I'm not talking about schools, per se, because renting commercial space in Hawaii is cost prohibitive a lot of times. I'm talking about people in general, people with a background and knowledge of Martial Arts. Hawaii is a melting pot for sure. But so are a lot of other places. I never could figure out why there were so many martial arts people in Hawaii, but they were everywhere.

I lived upcountry Maui on Crater Road (later changed back to Haleakala Highway, which it was a continuation of) In the grand scheme of things it was the middle of nowhere. I remember hurting my back once (sneezing). I asked around and someone recommended an acupuncturist who did house calls. As he treated me, we talked. He did Martial Arts, too. BJJ and Muay Thai. We worked out in a field after that. Man, he was good. He introduced me to a lot of guys who trained, or used to. We hooked up and started training. (we called ourselves The Snap, Crackle, Pop Club because we were all old.)

Had lunch with a guy once, to discuss an unrelated project he was working on. Come to find out he trained, too. Invited me to an Aikido club in his back yard, about a half mile from my house as the crow flies. He gave me directions to his driveway, which was hard to find. When I pulled into his windy, dirt driveway, I came to his house. Behind it stood a building about the size of a four car garage. It was built in traditional Japanese architecture. Looked like a little Kodokan. It was completely hidden by a grove of wattle trees. Inside was even nicer than the outside. It wasn't a commercial operation, just a group of folks doing Aikido.

I could tell you a lot of stories like those incidences. I kept meeting folks who had a background in the Arts. They trained in their garage, lanai or back yard. And a lot of them were really talented. And they seemed to be everywhere. When they hooked up with each other a lot of ideas and methods of movement were exchanged. It was great for everyone.

I haven't seen such a diverse mix of Martial talent in one place, before or since.
 
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Makalakumu

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I've been fortunate to travel over the years. I have never experienced a location where there were so many Martial Artists. I'm not talking about schools, per se, because renting commercial space in Hawaii is cost prohibitive a lot of times. I'm talking about people in general, people with a background and knowledge of Martial Arts. Hawaii is a melting pot for sure. But so are a lot of other places. I never could figure out why there were so many martial arts people in Hawaii, but they were everywhere.

I lived upcountry Maui on Crater Road (later changed back to Haleakala Highway, which it was a continuation of) In the grand scheme of things it was the middle of nowhere. I remember hurting my back once (sneezing). I asked around and someone recommended an acupuncturist who did house calls. As he treated me, we talked. He did Martial Arts, too. BJJ and Muay Thai. We worked out in a field after that. Man, he was good. He introduced me to a lot of guys who trained, or used to. We hooked up and started training. (we called ourselves The Snap, Crackle, Pop Club because we were all old.)

Had lunch with a guy once, to discuss an unrelated project he was working on. Come to find out he trained, too. Invited me to an Aikido club in his back yard, about a half mile from my house as the crow flies. He gave me directions to his driveway, which was hard to find. When I pulled into his windy, dirt driveway, I came to his house. Behind it stood a building about the size of a four car garage. It was built in traditional Japanese architecture. Looked like a little Kodokan. It was completely hidden by a grove of wattle trees. Inside was even nicer than the outside. It wasn't a commercial operation, just a group of folks doing Aikido.

I could tell you a lot of stories like those incidences. I kept meeting folks who had a background in the Arts. They trained in their garage, lanai or back yard. And a lot of them were really talented. And they seemed to be everywhere. When they hooked up with each other a lot of ideas and methods of movement were exchanged. It was great for everyone.

I haven't seen such a diverse mix of Martial talent in one place, before or since.

Great post. I think you nailed it. Hawaii is very unique because so many people here practice martial arts. It's expensive to open a dojo, so you find most guys practicing in garages, backyards and in small study groups. I love finding these places and getting to know people involved in this.
 

elder999

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On the one hand, Okazaki's background was in traditional Japanese martial arts. He was following Japanese tradition by naming his art after the place where it was born by calling it "Danzan ryu," and he was ethnically Japanese, so it's a "Japanese martial art."

On the other hand, it's another gaijin jutsu, albeit one with a great deal of depth and documentation.

Personally, I'd say you'd be fine calling it "Hawaiian jujutsu." I can also see Chris's viewpoint.

In any case, it's also much the same as tae kwon do being a Japanese martial art, since that's where its roots lie....I reckon that whatever your seniors and Okazaki call it is what you should call it, when you start teaching it.

(My dad said much the same things about martial arts in Hawaii-he was stationed there in the 50's,coached judo and boxing, and studied some form of karate, though I've never been able to figure out which one, in someone's garage.......)
 

puunui

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I haven't seen such a diverse mix of Martial talent in one place, before or since.

And not only diverse, but very deep as well. Many high level practitioners move here, in part because they feel the environment is most conducive to martial arts training. And most of the time, you see these people on the street, you wouldn't know that they even train in anything, because they look like ordinary people. The martial arts is embedded into culture here. For example, every buddhist or shinto temple has at least one martial arts club going on, and more likely at least two or three.
 

puunui

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(My dad said much the same things about martial arts in Hawaii-he was stationed there in the 50's,coached judo and boxing, and studied some form of karate, though I've never been able to figure out which one, in someone's garage.......)

What was the name of your father's teacher in karate in hawaii? Or where was the garage?
 

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