Critique vs Criticism

dvcochran

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What about if someone were to say "you're not so good at abc, you can improve by doing xyz"?

That's saying you're not good, but in a constructive way (not destructive, like "hey, that's bad" ;))

It is the lead in that sets up a discussion. When your lead in statement includes the words "you're not good", most people are going to zero in on that making the rest of what you say less effective.
 

Tony Dismukes

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"Your kicks suck" - useless

"Your kicks suck because they have no power" - marginally less useless

"Your round kicks lack power because you aren't turning your hips over" - potentially helpful

"You'll get more power out of your round kicks if you turn your hips over more" - less likely to produce defensive reaction and therefore more likely to be helpful

"You can get more power in your round kicks by pivoting on the ball of your support foot so that your hips turn over and the heel of your support foot ends up pointed at your target" - more helpful.

"You can get more power in your round kicks by pivoting on the ball of your support foot so that your hips turn over and the heel of your support foot ends up pointed at your target. One good exercise to help develop this movement is to start facing a convenient platform (chair, table, ringside, etc) with one foot up on the platform in a front kick stretch position and the support foot on the ground with toes pointing forward. Keeping good balance and body alignment, pivot on your support foot so that your heel points towards your raised foot and your hip turns over so the raised ("kicking") leg rotates sidewise into a round kick position." - even more helpful.
 

Gerry Seymour

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"Your kicks suck" - useless

"Your kicks suck because they have no power" - marginally less useless

"Your round kicks lack power because you aren't turning your hips over" - potentially helpful

"You'll get more power out of your round kicks if you turn your hips over more" - less likely to produce defensive reaction and therefore more likely to be helpful

"You can get more power in your round kicks by pivoting on the ball of your support foot so that your hips turn over and the heel of your support foot ends up pointed at your target" - more helpful.

"You can get more power in your round kicks by pivoting on the ball of your support foot so that your hips turn over and the heel of your support foot ends up pointed at your target. One good exercise to help develop this movement is to start facing a convenient platform (chair, table, ringside, etc) with one foot up on the platform in a front kick stretch position and the support foot on the ground with toes pointing forward. Keeping good balance and body alignment, pivot on your support foot so that your heel points towards your raised foot and your hip turns over so the raised ("kicking") leg rotates sidewise into a round kick position." - even more helpful.
"Don't kick the hanging bag frame when you pivot that support foot to produce more power." Most helpful.
 

dvcochran

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"Your kicks suck" - useless

"Your kicks suck because they have no power" - marginally less useless

"Your round kicks lack power because you aren't turning your hips over" - potentially helpful

"You'll get more power out of your round kicks if you turn your hips over more" - less likely to produce defensive reaction and therefore more likely to be helpful

"You can get more power in your round kicks by pivoting on the ball of your support foot so that your hips turn over and the heel of your support foot ends up pointed at your target" - more helpful.

"You can get more power in your round kicks by pivoting on the ball of your support foot so that your hips turn over and the heel of your support foot ends up pointed at your target. One good exercise to help develop this movement is to start facing a convenient platform (chair, table, ringside, etc) with one foot up on the platform in a front kick stretch position and the support foot on the ground with toes pointing forward. Keeping good balance and body alignment, pivot on your support foot so that your heel points towards your raised foot and your hip turns over so the raised ("kicking") leg rotates sidewise into a round kick position." - even more helpful.
Good examples. On a different tact, are you saying you pivot the heel 180簞 when performing a round kick? We teach this for side kicks but only about 90簞 for a round kick to make the return to stance quicker and easier. Curious how you teach.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Good examples. On a different tact, are you saying you pivot the heel 180簞 when performing a round kick? We teach this for side kicks but only about 90簞 for a round kick to make the return to stance quicker and easier. Curious how you teach.
180 degrees is ideal for power, but sometimes you might make it less if youre prioritizing speed. The thing is, most people have a natural tendency to under-pivot, so its easy to back it off if you dont want the full commitment. Contrariwise, if you only learn the smaller pivot then its hard to change to the full power version under stress.

Note - this is from my Muay Thai experience. Im sure other arts teach it differently.
 

oldwarrior

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There's some nuance beyond the dictionary definitions. Critiquing someone normally involves at least specifying why something isn't good, which is partway to offering advice on what could be improved (even if it doesn't include advice on how to make that improvement). When we say "constructive criticism", there's a reason we find it necessary to add that predecessor word - it entirely changes the connotation. Constructive criticism is like a critique that includes a bit of how with the why.


I agree and to add in my view how and in what tone it delivered makes the difference
 

dvcochran

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It's difficult to inflect on a forum, which is the subject of the thread...

It is difficult to write inflection, it has to be more of an explanation with tempered passion.
In the OP's post it defines critique (Critique: evaluate in a detailed and analytical way). For me, the key work is analytical. First you need to analyze the condition(s), i.e. a kick, and to be able to provide quality information about what is both correct and incorrect. However, if you overload the content and become overly polite or positive, the point(s) you are trying to make get lost in the conversation. Assuming we are talking only about a MA classroom situation, one of the most important things to do is show and perform the correction. Use your body as the visual and show how to correctly perform a technique and the negatives of doing it incorrectly.
 

Gerry Seymour

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180 degrees is ideal for power, but sometimes you might make it less if youre prioritizing speed. The thing is, most people have a natural tendency to under-pivot, so its easy to back it off if you dont want the full commitment. Contrariwise, if you only learn the smaller pivot then its hard to change to the full power version under stress.

Note - this is from my Muay Thai experience. Im sure other arts teach it differently.
The principle is the same in how I was taught to kick in NGA. Traditionally, the front foot is taught as a speed kick, so no back foot pivot (from a fighting stance). The rear foot is traditionally taught for power, so a pivot. The pivot taught isn't nearly 180 degrees, but now I have something to tinker with during class this evening. I want to look and see how far my current "natural" pivot actually is, and how far I can currently pivot without changing the kick. And without kicking the frame, because my right foot still hurts from the last time I did that.
 

Gerry Seymour

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It's difficult to inflect on a forum, which is the subject of the thread...
Agreed. And that makes it all the more important to pay attention to how a post sounds, because we can't really get tone of voice in a post. Instead, we have to pay more attention to our words to convey the tone without tone of voice.
 

dvcochran

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The principle is the same in how I was taught to kick in NGA. Traditionally, the front foot is taught as a speed kick, so no back foot pivot (from a fighting stance). The rear foot is traditionally taught for power, so a pivot. The pivot taught isn't nearly 180 degrees, but now I have something to tinker with during class this evening. I want to look and see how far my current "natural" pivot actually is, and how far I can currently pivot without changing the kick. And without kicking the frame, because my right foot still hurts from the last time I did that.

For a front kick, no pivot of course although I do have to correct this often. You see it a lot when someone raises their heel off the floor trying to get a higher kick.
For a roundhouse kick, pivot 90簞 or slightly more. This is more than enough pivot to get the knee pointed past the target so the foot can drive through the target. Stretching the hip flexor is vitally important for speed/power/ease of kick. It is a rotational kick so think about the foot as the arc point.
For a side kick rotate 180簞. It is a straight or linear kick so everything has to fully rotate, foot, hips, knees, etc... If you are NOT doing a head level kick It takes less stretch but more strength and balance to correctly perform. IMHO
 

Jaeimseu

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For a front kick, no pivot of course although I do have to correct this often. You see it a lot when someone raises their heel off the floor trying to get a higher kick.
For a roundhouse kick, pivot 90簞 or slightly more. This is more than enough pivot to get the knee pointed past the target so the foot can drive through the target. Stretching the hip flexor is vitally important for speed/power/ease of kick. It is a rotational kick so think about the foot as the arc point.
For a side kick rotate 180簞. It is a straight or linear kick so everything has to fully rotate, foot, hips, knees, etc... If you are NOT doing a head level kick It takes less stretch but more strength and balance to correctly perform. IMHO

I always teach a pivot, even on a front kick. Of course, its not nearly as much of a pivot as for a round kick.


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EdwardA

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I think a lot of people don't know the difference, to be quite honest.
Apparently it's such a norm now, even some moderators act like trolls. Nothing but negative posts even when they have no concept of what you're doing... because they engage in no conversation. They're just derogatory roght off the bat.
 

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