Convert from jacket wrestling to no-jacket wrestling

Kung Fu Wang

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If you have jacket, I can grab on your lapel, I can push you lapel with one hand and grab your leg with the other hand (knee seize). When you step back, since I still have a hold on your lapel, I can pull you and sweep your leg. My lapel hand can function for both push and pull.

If you don't have jacket, I can push your shoulder when I apply knee seize. But when you step back, in order to pull and sweep your leg, I have to find a new contact point (such as your neck). If you step back very fast, I may not have enough time to move my hand from your shoulder to your neck.

In other words, without jacket, some push-pull throwing combo won't work very well.

In the following clip, because his opponent has jacket on, his right hand can function for both push and pull. He can't do that if his opponent has no shirt on.

If you are good in this knee seize, foot sweep jack throwing combo, in order for you to switch into a no-jacket wrestling, how long do you think it will take you to convert your skill from jack to no-jacket?

How many years will it take for a Judo guy to feel comfortable to compete in wrestling tournament? Your thought?

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Monkey Turned Wolf

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If you have jacket, I can grab on your lapel, I can push you lapel with one hand and grab your leg with the other hand (knee seize). When you step back, since I still have a hold on your lapel, I can pull you and sweep your leg. My lapel hand can function for both push and pull.

If you don't have jacket, I can push your shoulder when I apply knee seize. But when you step back, in order to pull and sweep your leg, I have to find a new contact point (such as your neck). If you step back very fast, I may not have enough time to move my hand from your shoulder to your neck.

In other words, without jacket, some push-pull throwing combo won't work very well.

In the following clip, because his opponent has jacket on, his right hand can function for both push and pull. He can't do that if his opponent has no shirt on.

If you are good in this knee seize, foot sweep jack throwing combo, in order for you to switch into a no-jacket wrestling, how long do you think it will take you to convert your skill from jack to no-jacket?

How many years will it take for a Judo guy to feel comfortable to compete in wrestling tournament? Your thought?

Kou-Ti.gif
To compete in wrestling, probably a year because of differing rulesets and techniques for those rulesets. To change from randori with gi/jacket, to randori without, I think they'd have most of their skills adapted within a couple months, max.
 

Ivan

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If you have jacket, I can grab on your lapel, I can push you lapel with one hand and grab your leg with the other hand (knee seize). When you step back, since I still have a hold on your lapel, I can pull you and sweep your leg. My lapel hand can function for both push and pull.

If you don't have jacket, I can push your shoulder when I apply knee seize. But when you step back, in order to pull and sweep your leg, I have to find a new contact point (such as your neck). If you step back very fast, I may not have enough time to move my hand from your shoulder to your neck.

In other words, without jacket, some push-pull throwing combo won't work very well.

In the following clip, because his opponent has jacket on, his right hand can function for both push and pull. He can't do that if his opponent has no shirt on.

If you are good in this knee seize, foot sweep jack throwing combo, in order for you to switch into a no-jacket wrestling, how long do you think it will take you to convert your skill from jack to no-jacket?

How many years will it take for a Judo guy to feel comfortable to compete in wrestling tournament? Your thought?

Kou-Ti.gif
It completely depends on the school. In my old Japanese Jiu-Jitsu club, we were taught non-jacket variations of a technique alongside its original, jacketed variation.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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It completely depends on the school. In my old Japanese Jiu-Jitsu club, we were taught non-jacket variations of a technique alongside its original, jacketed variation.
That's jjj not judo. That's less likely to find in a judo school, at least if the school focuses on the sport side of judo (which is kinda why judo was developed)
 

Ivan

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That's jjj not judo. That's less likely to find in a judo school, at least if the school focuses on the sport side of judo (which is kinda why judo was developed)
Interesting. I would imagine there would be at least some schools that do this also though? At least a couple of schools will teach it for self-defence, right?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Interesting. I would imagine there would be at least some schools that do this also though? At least a couple of schools will teach it for self-defence, right?
There are, but from what I understand that's the minority in terms of what's actually taught. Particularly since you can still learn the sport while learning it for self defence-similar to how you can learn boxing for self defence, but what you learn is within the ruleset.
 

Ivan

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There are, but from what I understand that's the minority in terms of what's actually taught. Particularly since you can still learn the sport while learning it for self defence-similar to how you can learn boxing for self defence, but what you learn is within the ruleset.
Ah I see. Thanks.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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That's jjj not judo. That's less likely to find in a judo school, at least if the school focuses on the sport side of judo (which is kinda why judo was developed)
Agree When I jointed a Judo forum, I suggested no-Gi Judo training. Many Judo instructors were not happy about my suggestion.

To some people, sport is their path and combat is their goal. To others people, sport is their path and also their goal.
 

Hanzou

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This is why Bjj has Gi and No-Gi. No-Gi changes things quite a bit.
 

Cynik75

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I was doing Gi BJJ till I've earned first stripe on purple belt. And then I fell in love with no-gi for seven years. Month ago I have gone to Gi class to realize that I can't fight in gi. 70% of my moves does not work with Gi or can be easy countered. So I have came back to GI BJJ to learn GI art again.
There is big overlap between gi nad nogi game, but a lot of things need adjustment.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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I can't fight in gi. 70% of my moves does not work with Gi or can be easy countered.
If your opponent grabs on your jacket, when you try to do something, he can just give you a quick shaking. None of your technique will work unless you can break apart his jacket grabbing first.

It's hard to do body shaking in no jacket environment.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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If your opponent grabs on your jacket, when you try to do something, he can just give you a quick shaking. None of your technique will work unless you can break apart his jacket grabbing first.

It's hard to do body shaking in no jacket environment.
Which is why it's important to learn jacket fighting too. Since people wear jackets in real life too.
 

Hanzou

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Eh, it depends on what your goals are really. I know when I roll with someone in normal clothes, I tend to rely on No gi grips over gi grips. I'm also from a Gjj background so I learned both, but I don't think that guys who learn nothing but No gi like 10th Planet guys are necessarily at a disadvantage. I would also argue that the Gi can make you rely on grips that aren't always available.

In short, best to train in both.
 
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