Close Combat Systems
- Thread starter eyecbatty
- Start date
KenpoTex
Senior Master
Welcome to the forum. You might check here: http://www.mwarrior.com/, I've heard some great things about this guy from people who's opinions I value highly.
Otherwise, just find a good MMA gym
Otherwise, just find a good MMA gym
bowser666
2nd Black Belt
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Check out Center For Self Preservation training. It's a guy by the name of Demi Barbito and he specifically trains , military, police, etc......... I have some of his discs. Pretty interesting stuff. Deals alot with firearms as well, not just empty hand.
girlbug2
Master of Arts
I wish I knew more about who to recommend for that style, but I am largely ignorant about CCS.
The one piece of info I do have however, is to avoid a charlatan named Captain Chris. He seems to not be well thought of around here and after viewing his Web site I can see why.
The one piece of info I do have however, is to avoid a charlatan named Captain Chris. He seems to not be well thought of around here and after viewing his Web site I can see why.
Randy Strausbaugh
Master Black Belt
You probably should wait until you can determine what the "use of force" policy is for your department. As I understand it, this may vary widely between departments. Once you have done that, determine what in your area teaches methods which are in line with that policy. After all, Tibetan Yak Boxing may be perfect for you, but if there are no teachers available, then you're out of luck. Living in New York, you do have a wider range of teachers available than do those of us in the hinterlands, but still...
One thing which you might also want to consider is the name of the school. I know this seems rather trivial, but picture yourself on the witness stand in a case where you have to justify your use of force, and the lawyer says, "So officer, I understand that you study at the 'New York Kickass University of Death', is that correct?" This is, of course, and exaggeration, but I think you see my point. Self defense means not only protecting your life and health, but your freedom and good name as well. JMHO.
One thing which you might also want to consider is the name of the school. I know this seems rather trivial, but picture yourself on the witness stand in a case where you have to justify your use of force, and the lawyer says, "So officer, I understand that you study at the 'New York Kickass University of Death', is that correct?" This is, of course, and exaggeration, but I think you see my point. Self defense means not only protecting your life and health, but your freedom and good name as well. JMHO.
There are many martial arts that are good. There are some that are crap.Hello Everyone
So Basically What Systems do you Guys Recomend?
Heres my Deal
Im about to be in a Law Enforcement Career and looking for some schools or teachers in Queens New York..
thanks for the help
But the simple truth that there is no magic, best martial art for law enforcement. Instead, you want to look at the training methods. Do partners increase the intensity and resistance as they work? Are the starting at reasonable ranges? Is the sparring focused on playing some sort of game -- or developing the ability to freely apply the principles and techniques taught? If you check the Self Defense forum and Law Enforcement forum here on MT, you'll find quite a few threads on this topic; I'm simply not going to rehash all the old discussions.
There are some styles that are quicker to learn and easier to adapt. Generally, they focus on large muscle movements, simple and direct techniques, and lots of repitition. That's not to say that more complex styles don't work -- they just take longer to learn and internalize.
Second the recommendation for Modern Warrior. I've spent some time around Mr. Messina and his people. They really are in a class by themselves.
The owner of the school is the NYPD's most decorated cop with the highest number of felony arrests, one of the founders of ASLET, etc. etc. etc. Think of him as about 20% larger than life. I haven't met anyone who I would say is better and very few in his class. "Very few" being people like Dan Inosanto.
Other schools talk about law enforcement. These guys do it. Most of the several hundred students at any time are active duty law enforcement. They regularly train the President's Marine Guards, the FBI HRT and so on. Not just a couple members taking a seminar but large groups being flown there to train. They make a serious distinction between the three parts of their school - Police Defensive Tactics, Martial Arts and Women's Self Defense. Different needs require very different tools. As far as I know all three sections include extensive work on the legal and ethical aspects of self defense including moot court with practicing lawyers. And they are very careful about the mental and emotional areas. There's a lot of stuff designed to prepare the students for post violent event trauma.
They're constantly doing research like going to the morgues to see how officers died. Their work on firearms retention and disarming, ground fighting for law enforcement - NOT BJJ style ground grappling and particularly fighting multiple armed opponents is revolutionary. In particular law enforcement students learn how to fight in their regular gear. And no, it's not just a few exercises and kata applications. It really is integrated into their curriculum from day one. Their record in real life encounters speaks for itself.
In order to pass that knowledge on MW has regular classes as well as short term seminars for police officers in everything from handcuffing to some very interesting baton work, ground fighting, fighting under adverse conditions (such as that sensory overload I was talking about), multiple opponents, and a comprehensive two week Officer Survival program
The facility is exceptional. There are simulation rooms with wind, rain, subway cars, parked cars, sound, light and smoke. Even the mats are designed to stand up to people in street shoes (students train in their everyday clothes) and overlap irregularly to get you used to training on something besides a nice flat surface. It was one of the first to be designed for training under conditions of total sensory overload.
It really is one of a kind. If you're in law enforcement there isn't any other place you should consider until you've checked out Modern Warrior.
The owner of the school is the NYPD's most decorated cop with the highest number of felony arrests, one of the founders of ASLET, etc. etc. etc. Think of him as about 20% larger than life. I haven't met anyone who I would say is better and very few in his class. "Very few" being people like Dan Inosanto.
Other schools talk about law enforcement. These guys do it. Most of the several hundred students at any time are active duty law enforcement. They regularly train the President's Marine Guards, the FBI HRT and so on. Not just a couple members taking a seminar but large groups being flown there to train. They make a serious distinction between the three parts of their school - Police Defensive Tactics, Martial Arts and Women's Self Defense. Different needs require very different tools. As far as I know all three sections include extensive work on the legal and ethical aspects of self defense including moot court with practicing lawyers. And they are very careful about the mental and emotional areas. There's a lot of stuff designed to prepare the students for post violent event trauma.
They're constantly doing research like going to the morgues to see how officers died. Their work on firearms retention and disarming, ground fighting for law enforcement - NOT BJJ style ground grappling and particularly fighting multiple armed opponents is revolutionary. In particular law enforcement students learn how to fight in their regular gear. And no, it's not just a few exercises and kata applications. It really is integrated into their curriculum from day one. Their record in real life encounters speaks for itself.
In order to pass that knowledge on MW has regular classes as well as short term seminars for police officers in everything from handcuffing to some very interesting baton work, ground fighting, fighting under adverse conditions (such as that sensory overload I was talking about), multiple opponents, and a comprehensive two week Officer Survival program
The facility is exceptional. There are simulation rooms with wind, rain, subway cars, parked cars, sound, light and smoke. Even the mats are designed to stand up to people in street shoes (students train in their everyday clothes) and overlap irregularly to get you used to training on something besides a nice flat surface. It was one of the first to be designed for training under conditions of total sensory overload.
It really is one of a kind. If you're in law enforcement there isn't any other place you should consider until you've checked out Modern Warrior.
From "Espada y Daga" to Dagon, you've got the real scoop on everything. Pretty amazing for a self-proclaimed professional "nerd". I don't know how you gather so much good info, Todd, but it's getting to the point where you need to think about starting an "Ask Tellner" column...or have you already done that too?
bootcampbj
Yellow Belt
I would recommend that you also include some Jiujitsu/judo/bjj class´s in your schedule.
My head instructor and many of the senior students in my class of BJJ are police. The grappling really helps you develop grip strength and bodyweight distribution skills to increase the efficiency of the restraining techniques you will learn and use in law enforcement.
Other than that, as a security officer I agree with doing some regular training with a center that has a program designed for law enforcement dealing in firearms and other weapons. You will learn a lot of that in your official training, but its good to have an environment to keep developing and improving those applicable skills.
- bj
My head instructor and many of the senior students in my class of BJJ are police. The grappling really helps you develop grip strength and bodyweight distribution skills to increase the efficiency of the restraining techniques you will learn and use in law enforcement.
Other than that, as a security officer I agree with doing some regular training with a center that has a program designed for law enforcement dealing in firearms and other weapons. You will learn a lot of that in your official training, but its good to have an environment to keep developing and improving those applicable skills.
- bj
Mostly it's a good memory, a decent filing system and an obsession with finding out what folks are passionate about.
Seriously, everyone is a geek about something. Find out what makes them light up. Get them to talk about it, especially if it's something you know nothing about. You learn the stuff that's important to a person who is immersed in the field after they've done the heavy lifting.
Seriously, everyone is a geek about something. Find out what makes them light up. Get them to talk about it, especially if it's something you know nothing about. You learn the stuff that's important to a person who is immersed in the field after they've done the heavy lifting.
- Thread Starter
- #11
Great..really great info guys..i deeply aprreciate it
Im 24 and i took tae kwon do when i was 8 for about 6 to 8 months or so..so basically im pretty new to Martial arts..cant really remember too much from wheni was younger
Im really athletic and hit the weights 5 times a week..im gonna be workin in Corrections..so there will be some Close Fighting and Restraints..and dealing wit "shanks"
Also wanna be able to Defend myself on the outside..everyday life..
i've been researching a little bit and some styles or systems came up..
Wing Chun
Pekiti Tirsia
Im 24 and i took tae kwon do when i was 8 for about 6 to 8 months or so..so basically im pretty new to Martial arts..cant really remember too much from wheni was younger
Im really athletic and hit the weights 5 times a week..im gonna be workin in Corrections..so there will be some Close Fighting and Restraints..and dealing wit "shanks"
Also wanna be able to Defend myself on the outside..everyday life..
i've been researching a little bit and some styles or systems came up..
Wing Chun
Pekiti Tirsia
If you can remember this single tip -- you'll actually find it of more use than any physical skill in law enforcement. There are lots of folks who can bust heads, but the cops who are really successful can TALK to people.
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
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Since law enforcement is more of restraining of people with holds and less of striking them then I suggest a good Akido school. One of my friends, an FBI agent, takes Akido and he won't touch my TKD. He felt Akido was more in line of what his job is about (and BTW, he's expert IDPA and he made that using his Glock 23, FBI plain cloths gear, with service JHP Winchester ammo! Not bad at all.)
I'd try that first, and then add some good Krav Maga or such so when times comes you have to fight for your life you have some offensive alternatives.
Deaf
I'd try that first, and then add some good Krav Maga or such so when times comes you have to fight for your life you have some offensive alternatives.
Deaf
bowser666
2nd Black Belt
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Ok folks , here is that link for the C.S.P.T. I highly recommend this guy. I have watched his videos , and know a few people that have been to his training seminars and have heard nothing but good things to say about his program.
http://www.demibarbito.com/
http://www.demibarbito.com/
dancingalone
Grandmaster
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Some friends of mine who have worked as police officers or corrections officers have reported hapkido or jujutsu training to be useful if practiced in a realistic manner.
chinto
Senior Master
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ok, I do not have clue one what the laws and policy's of the state of New York or the department you are looking at being employed by! NOT CLUE ONE. but if you are looking for survival skills on the street, my advice would be to look at the Okinawan systems that grew out of survival on the street over century's of survival of combat.
I study Shobayashi Shorin Ryu, but there are several other Okinawan systems you may want to look at. for arresting people Judo, and several traditional systems of Jujitsu are very very good! no question! but survival when its live or die, I would suggest one of the Okinawan systems. well that and a lot of practice with your service weapon, and understanding that once you draw and point a pistol or other fire arm you are committed to kill or you should not be pointing it.
THE BIG ONE IS.....Remember as a cop ( police, sheriff or state police or even U. S. Deputy Marshal or U. S. Marshal your job is to bring them in for trial. ) but going home alive at the end of shift is important too.
I study Shobayashi Shorin Ryu, but there are several other Okinawan systems you may want to look at. for arresting people Judo, and several traditional systems of Jujitsu are very very good! no question! but survival when its live or die, I would suggest one of the Okinawan systems. well that and a lot of practice with your service weapon, and understanding that once you draw and point a pistol or other fire arm you are committed to kill or you should not be pointing it.
THE BIG ONE IS.....Remember as a cop ( police, sheriff or state police or even U. S. Deputy Marshal or U. S. Marshal your job is to bring them in for trial. ) but going home alive at the end of shift is important too.
Here's one I've never been able to understand...
A professional cop - one who takes his job seriously - realizes that he can't take on the world. Fights will come to him whether he wants them or not. One lucky punch in any one of those encounters could have him in a wooden overcoat. Most officers never fire their sidearms except on the range. Many never point it at another human being.
And his job isn't kicking tail. A huge part is gathering information, keeping in touch with everyone from informants to citizens to the people he arrests. And when he talks he has to make sure people understand what he's telling them and get them to do what he tells them to. Lord knows those can be harder than the inside of a banker's heart.
A cop uses his gun almost never, his baton once in a while, his hands quite a bit and his communications skills all the time. So why do Academies spend lots of time on shooting, some on baton, a bit on unarmed defensive tactics and just a smidgen on communicating? It all seems a bit upside down.
bootcampbj
Yellow Belt
Aikido is great, I´ve practiced it for years myself and would recommend it to anyone. The reason I recommend straight BJJ training though is the style of the training will suit his immediate needs a bit better. The exposure to full on wrestling/grappling with a range of body types for hours on end really becomes more applicable quickly through a range of common ground and standing scenarios.
Aikido served me very well through my security career though, especially in it´s mental training and emotional calm inner focus.
- BJ
- BJ
Bravo, well said...I have had to work with some officers that make a situation worse just by their inability to talk to people...As far as defensive tactics, you've been given some EXCELLENT advice..Personally I train and teach Combat Hapkido.. I find it very effective..
Jack Latorre
White Belt
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"Eyecbatty"--
I read that one of the systems you are considering is Pekiti-Tirsia. In your general area, I would recommend you take a look at www.pekiti.com and contact either Tuhon Bill McGrath or Maginoo Mike Popolizio, as both are law enforcement.
Although the system can be overshadowed by political intrigue at times, it is an excellent system nonetheless and perpetuated quite nicely by Pekiti-Tirsia International.
Best of luck in your search and in your occupational pursuits.
Regards,
Jack A. Latorre
I read that one of the systems you are considering is Pekiti-Tirsia. In your general area, I would recommend you take a look at www.pekiti.com and contact either Tuhon Bill McGrath or Maginoo Mike Popolizio, as both are law enforcement.
Although the system can be overshadowed by political intrigue at times, it is an excellent system nonetheless and perpetuated quite nicely by Pekiti-Tirsia International.
Best of luck in your search and in your occupational pursuits.
Regards,
Jack A. Latorre
