Christian Reconstructionism

[hardheadjarhead]

Saw this link discussing Christian Reconstructionism, a literalist movement designed to actually implement the Old Testament (Mosaic) laws of the Bible:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

I offer this from the article...

Practices:

If they gained control of the US or Canadian federal government, there would be many changes:


The use of the death penalty would be greatly expanded, when the Hebrew Scriptures' laws are reapplied. People will be executed for adultery, blasphemy, heresy, homosexual behavior, idolatry, prostitution, evil sorcery (some translations say Witchcraft), etc. The Bible requires those found guilty of these "crimes" to be either stoned to death or burned alive. Reconstructionists are divided on the execution method to be used.

A church or congregation which does not accept the Mosaic Law has another god before them, and is thus guilty of idolatry. That would be punishable by death. That would include all non-Christian religious organizations. At the present time, non-Christians total two-thirds of the human race.

The status of women would be reduced to almost that of a slave as described in the Hebrew Scriptures. A woman would initially be considered the property of her father; after marriage, she would be considered the property of her husband.

It would be logical to assume that the institution of slavery would be reintroduced, and regulated according to Biblical laws. Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery. Female slaves would retain that status for life. People who owned slaves would be allowed to physically abuse them, as long as they did not beat them so severely that they lived for three days before dying.

Polygyny and the keeping of concubines were permitted in the Old Testament. However, Reconstructionists generally believe in marriage between one man and one woman only. Any other sexual expression would be a capital crime. Those found guilty of engaging in same-sex, pre-marital or extra-marital sex would be executed.

The Old Testament "Jubilee Year" system would be celebrated once more. Every 50 years, the control of all land reverted to its original owners. In theory, this would require every part of North American land to be returned to the original Aboriginal owners (or perhaps to those persons of Aboriginal descent who are now Christians). Hawaii would be given back to the native Hawaiians.

Governments would all have balanced budgets.

Income taxes would be eliminated.

The prison system would be eliminated. A system of just restitution would be established for some crimes. The death penalty would be practiced for many other crimes. There would be little need for warehousing of convicted criminals.

Legal abortions would be banished; those found to be responsible for abortions would be charged with murder and executed.

The reinstitution of slavery appears to be a hot button item among Reconstructionists. We have received a few negative E-mails which complained that the movement does not recommend the resumption of human slavery. But we have received many more Emails from Reconstructionists claiming that legalizing slavery would be good for North America.


Note that two thirds of the population would face extinction by these standards.


They lost me on the polygyny restriction.


Regards,


Steve

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Whoa. It gets scarier.

http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/words.htm

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/r10.html

And they DO support slavery.



Regards,


Steve

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Allow me to venture this comment....

These people are certifiably insane.

Another, as a question....

How do other people who are practicing of an Abrahamic faith - in particular, Jewish or Christians - feel about one group using a text to push their idea of society down everyone else's throats?

This is madness.

 

[MisterMike]

Somehow I think their sphere of influence is rather small.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Somehow I think their sphere of influence is rather small.

Nope. They have great influence among the Christian right.

They've influenced the thinking of conservatives like Francis Shaeffer (a popular Christian writer) and John Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute. The Rutherford Institute had Christian Reconstructionists on its board.

The founder of the Coalition On Revival (COR), acknowledges his gratitude to Reconstructionist leaders and "brilliant scholars" Rushdoony and North. COR members include John Whitehead, Don Wildmon of the American Family Association, bestselling author/evangelist Tim LaHaye, Randall Terry of Operation Rescue, Houston GOP activist Steven Hotze, lobbyist Robert Dugan of the National Association of Evangelicals, former US Congressmen Bill Dannemeyer (R-CA) and Mark Siljander (R-MI).

Recognize some of those names?

Pat Robertson's Regent University stocks North and Rushdoony's books and tapes in their libaries and uses them in their law classes and public policy courses. Regent University board chairwoman Dee Jepson is married to Senator Robert Jepson (R-Iowa) who helped raise funds for Rushdoony's Chalcedon Foundation.

California philanthropist and power broker Howard Ahmanson and political consultant Wayne C. Johnson are directors for Chalcedon.

A series of Reconstructionist-oriented books called Turning Point: Christian Worldview Series, are available in Christian bookstores throughout America.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5722.htm

The above link goes to an interesting article outlining the impact of the Reconstructionist on conservative Christianity in America.

Reconstructionists are closely linked with the John Birch Society, whose membership has been growing. U.S. Representative Larry McDonald was a JBS chairman at one point. He was killed in the KAL 007 shootdown incident in 1983, which fueled JBS communist conspiracy theories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society

And, finally, Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism


Regards,


Steve

 

[FearlessFreep]

As a Christian myself (of the 'born again variety) I find the idea of reconstructinism rather bizarre, and can't fathom why any Christian who had read Romans would take such ideas seriously.

Paul makes very clear that the Mosaic Law was put in place to show simply that we cannot live up to the moral standards neccessary to be in relationship with God by our own efforts and that therefore the need for the 'ultimate sacrifice' of Jesus. Paul was particularly critical of those who, once they had accepted Christ as that sacrifice, were returning to the rules and regulations of the Mosaic Law, which Paul made clear had been satisified in Jesus and were thus no longer neccessary to be followed.

Why Christians would exchange the freedom in Christ for slavery to the law is beyond me. Why Christians would enforce a set of religious laws that their own religion itself says is no longer needed on those who do not even follow the same God is really weird (1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I've always taken to mean that as Christians we should be more concerned with those in the church; let God deal with those outside )

Moreover, given historical precedent, I'm very concerned when those claiming the name of Christ and to be acting as God's hand on earth starting looking for political power. Usually when that happens, a lot of stuff get's done in the name of Christ that I don't think Christ is too pleased with. I believe in seperation of Church and State because I believe in protecting the Church from the corrupting influence of the State and the seduction of power

 

[FearlessFreep]

As an additional thought:

I've compared the Old Law to the New Freedom in Christ to the difference between childhood and adulthood.

When you are a child, you are told what to do and what not to do (and why). This shapes your character so as you mature you understand the principles of how to act so you do not have to have a 'do this/don't do that' instruction for your life. The specific rules ("don't hit your sister") become a character trait and that character influences how you handle many situations. As you mature, you no longer need a rule because you have character that can apply to many situations.

Similarly, I view the OT Law as a rules of "dos and don'ts" that illustrate what God expects as moral behavior. However, like rules laid down by a parent, they are intended not *just* as a set of dos and don'ts but as intended to give examples whereby you learn proper character. I think Jesus pointed out that 'you think the law is what you do, I'm saying that the principles of the law should be much deeper in who you are' (Matthew 5:27,28) and Paul (in Galatians 5:1) that Christ has set us free from the law.

So for Christians to go back to the law is like the adult who can't live with the freedom and maturity of adulthood and wants to go back to live under their parents specific rules

And this only applies to Christians. For Christians to try to apply the Mosaic law to non-Christians is...well..seems a big misunderstanding of what the Law is, what Jesus said, and what Christianity is all about.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Moreover, given historical precedent, I'm very concerned when those claiming the name of Christ and to be acting as God's hand on earth starting looking for political power. Usually when that happens, a lot of stuff get's done in the name of Christ that I don't think Christ is too pleased with. I believe in seperation of Church and State because I believe in protecting the Church from the corrupting influence of the State and the seduction of power

I agree - for the corruption and removal of human rights that can go *both* ways (corrupt the Church; corrupt the State).

Word.

 

[Zepp]

How do other people who are practicing of an Abrahamic faith - in particular, Jewish or Christians - feel about one group using a text to push their idea of society down everyone else's throats?

This is madness.

Madness is certainly a good word for it. And to an extent, it's also humorous that non-Jews can be more fanatical about the laws of the Torah than than the most observant ultra-orthodox Jews (with exception of an even less influential lunatic fringe).

My opinion as a Jew: The old laws can't be understand when they're taken out of their context, namely the time, place and particular situation to which they were applied. Whether you believe the origins of the "Old Testament" to be divine or mundane, you have to both insane, and just plain stupid to think that the words were meant to be taken literally in all cases, throughout all time.

 

[AC_Pilot]

As a bible believer and student of prophecy, I can tell you that these people and others like them are not true believers. They are not following scripture, and their existence and modus operandi were prophesied by Jesus.. in Matthew He said many would come in his name saying they were "Christ" (in other words, false teachers seeking power) but that they were actually ravening wolves.


The only old testament laws that believers are to commanded to obey (By Christ) are the ten commandments. You may find them in Exodus 20. None of us keep them perfectly but we are to try with all our will to get progressively closer to perfection through these simple rules. We believers are not commanded to become politicians and force our faith or obedience to G-d down the throats of others, but to teach and help those who want to obey G-d and follow Christ. Others may do as they wish as long as they do not harm my family, friends or neighbors. G-d will judge and deal with wrong doers in His time, it's not my job as a mortal follower to interfere unless they commit a crime and have to be dealt with, in order to defend the innocent.

I do believe in the death penalty for instance but I do not need to resort to scripture to prove the necessity for the death penalty, the need for the death penalty stands alone based on common sense and protecting the innocent by eliminating those who are proven insane and dangerous by their actions, and convicted in a court of law by a jury of their peers.

 

[Baytor]

As a Christian myself (of the 'born again variety) I find the idea of reconstructinism rather bizarre, and can't fathom why any Christian who had read Romans would take such ideas seriously.

Paul makes very clear that the Mosaic Law was put in place to show simply that we cannot live up to the moral standards neccessary to be in relationship with God by our own efforts and that therefore the need for the 'ultimate sacrifice' of Jesus. Paul was particularly critical of those who, once they had accepted Christ as that sacrifice, were returning to the rules and regulations of the Mosaic Law, which Paul made clear had been satisified in Jesus and were thus no longer neccessary to be followed.

Why Christians would exchange the freedom in Christ for slavery to the law is beyond me. Why Christians would enforce a set of religious laws that their own religion itself says is no longer needed on those who do not even follow the same God is really weird (1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I've always taken to mean that as Christians we should be more concerned with those in the church; let God deal with those outside )

Moreover, given historical precedent, I'm very concerned when those claiming the name of Christ and to be acting as God's hand on earth starting looking for political power. Usually when that happens, a lot of stuff get's done in the name of Christ that I don't think Christ is too pleased with. I believe in seperation of Church and State because I believe in protecting the Church from the corrupting influence of the State and the seduction of power

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FearlessFreep again.

​

 

[FearlessFreep]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FearlessFreep again.

I must admit, I don't totally understand how 'reputation' works

 

[Baytor]

It's the scales icon on the right side.

To return to the subject at hand though, I'm not so sure you can even call this group "christians". After all, aren't christians people who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ? And isn't what these people want to do is return to the Mosaic law handed down in the Torah (or Pentetuech...depending on religious tradition)? Therefore, do these people even care about Christ's teachings? Like that little thing about loving your neighbor?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, that's the first time we've seen somebody actually arguing that a) murders are by definition insane, and b) we should kill insane people, c) this fits perfectly well with Christ's teachings.

 

[heretic888]

To return to the subject at hand though, I'm not so sure you can even call this group "christians".

Personally, I wouldn't call +90% of the people that claim themselves as such to be "Christians".

There might be a few speckled here or there in the world's various monasteries and retreats, but most of those who could lay claim to this label were murdered by the Literalists some 1600 years ago.

And, to note, Christianity's core teachings are very anti-Torah in any sense...

 

[AC_Pilot]

Christ clearly explained that the ten commandments are still required of His followers. This was when the young rich man came to him proclaiming that he kept the commandments all his life. Christ said he did well, and lacked but one thing: To give up his wealth (in this instance because it must have been a stumbling block) and give it away and follow Christ. Christ said to:


Love G-d with all your being (This is the first 4 commandments)

Love your neighbor as yourself (This is the last 6 commandments)

You can find them in Exodus 20

One of the ten commandments is "Thou shall not murder". This is one way we love our neighbors (not to murder them) The bible punishment for murder was death. Nothing has changed.. if you murder you should be killed. Christ and his army, at His return, are going to kill a very large number of people: murderers and evildoers. See Revelations 19 and the end of Luke 19. For now we as humans are required to deal with extreme evildoers by stopping their sprees. If we fail to protect our communities and families from them we are doing evil, and not loving the innocent. It's simple societal self defense which is obvious even without the bible.

 

[heretic888]

Christ clearly explained that the ten commandments are still required of His followers. This was when the young rich man came to him proclaiming that he kept the commandments all his life. Christ said he did well, and lacked but one thing: To give up his wealth (in this instance because it must have been a stumbling block) and give it away and follow Christ. Christ said to:


Love G-d with all your being (This is the first 4 commandments)

Love your neighbor as yourself (This is the last 6 commandments)

You can find them in Exodus 20

One of the ten commandments is "Thou shall not murder". This is one way we love our neighbors (not to murder them) The bible punishment for murder was death. Nothing has changed.. if you murder you should be killed. Christ and his army, at His return, are going to kill a very large number of people: murderers and evildoers. See Revelations 19 and the end of Luke 19. For now we as humans are required to deal with extreme evildoers by stopping their sprees. If we fail to protect our communities and families from them we are doing evil, and not loving the innocent. It's simple societal self defense which is obvious even without the bible.

I just love these cut-and-paste interpretations of Biblical literature!!

Like, saying how one should "honor mother and father" but forgetting the NT admonition about giving up one's family, friends, and possessions to follow the Way --- which, in this particular context, referred to assuming a Pythagorean/Stoic lifestyle of a homeless, socialist preacher.

No, the core of Christianity is Hellenistic philosophy --- especially Platonism. Most of it runs contradictory to the Old Testamental philosophy.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Christ clearly explained that the ten commandments are still required of His followers. This was when the young rich man came to him proclaiming that he kept the commandments all his life. Christ said he did well, and lacked but one thing: To give up his wealth (in this instance because it must have been a stumbling block) and give it away and follow Christ. Christ said to:


Love G-d with all your being (This is the first 4 commandments)

Love your neighbor as yourself (This is the last 6 commandments)

You can find them in Exodus 20

One of the ten commandments is "Thou shall not murder". This is one way we love our neighbors (not to murder them) The bible punishment for murder was death. Nothing has changed.. if you murder you should be killed. Christ and his army, at His return, are going to kill a very large number of people: murderers and evildoers. See Revelations 19 and the end of Luke 19. For now we as humans are required to deal with extreme evildoers by stopping their sprees. If we fail to protect our communities and families from them we are doing evil, and not loving the innocent. It's simple societal self defense which is obvious even without the bible.

If we have prisons, and we put people in them who murder, how are we not protecting other people?

If we murder an innocent man or woman on Death Row, how have we obeyed the Ten Commandments - or Christ's teachings?

 

[heretic888]

If we have prisons, and we put people in them who murder, how are we not protecting other people?

If we murder an innocent man or woman on Death Row, how have we obeyed the Ten Commandments - or Christ's teachings?

Yup.

Bible also says "judge not, lest ye be judged".

It also says, "Give unto Caesar what is his" --- a curious admonition to obey existing laws.

How do we harmonize this contradiction in regards to capital punishment??

You don't. The Bible is an ahistorical document that contradicts itself perpetually. You deal with it, and derive whatever moral wisdom you can from it --- without treating it as the perfected blueprint to human existence.

 

[digitalronin]

The use of the death penalty would be greatly expanded, when the Hebrew Scriptures' laws are reapplied. People will be executed for adultery, blasphemy, heresy, homosexual behavior, idolatry, prostitution, evil sorcery (some translations say Witchcraft), etc. The Bible requires those found guilty of these "crimes" to be either stoned to death or burned alive. Reconstructionists are divided on the execution method to be used.

While I agree with the idea of expanding the death penalty, this is a little overboard. The penalty should include murders, drug dealers, rapists, child molesters, and gangbanger. As for the method of execution lets bring back the guilletine (cheap, reusable, and u don't need a doctor to tell u the scum is dead)

It would be logical to assume that the institution of slavery would be reintroduced, and regulated according to Biblical laws. Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery. Female slaves would retain that status for life. People who owned slaves would be allowed to physically abuse them, as long as they did not beat them so severely that they lived for three days before dying.

reintroduced, when did they completely eliminate it? the rulling class is still white anglo saxon prostestant male.

The Old Testament "Jubilee Year" system would be celebrated once more. Every 50 years, the control of all land reverted to its original owners. In theory, this would require every part of North American land to be returned to the original Aboriginal owners (or perhaps to those persons of Aboriginal descent who are now Christians). Hawaii would be given back to the native Hawaiians.

Hell yes! give us back the land the white man stole from us.

Governments would all have balanced budgets.

Income taxes would be eliminated.

Excellent Idea.

The prison system would be eliminated. A system of just restitution would be established for some crimes. The death penalty would be practiced for many other crimes. There would be little need for warehousing of convicted criminals.

Our state, California, is already burdened to the max to house the scumbags that should have been justly executed.