Check under your car carefully.

MA-Caver

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A guy goes in to have a regular oil change. The mechanic spies something odd hanging from his undercarriage. They're unable to identify it so he takes pictures of it and posts it on the net hoping someone can tell him what it is. Days later FBI agents knock on his door demanding their property back.
A clear case of WTF?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101016/ap_on_re_us/us_gps_tracking_warrants

Two days later, FBI agents arrived at Afifi's Santa Clara apartment and demanded the return of their property a global positioning system tracking device now at the center of a raging legal debate over privacy rights.
One federal judge wrote that the widespread use of the device was straight out of George Orwell's novel, "1984".
"By holding that this kind of surveillance doesn't impair an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy, the panel hands the government the power to track the movements of every one of us, every day of our lives," wrote [COLOR=#366388 ! important][COLOR=#366388 ! important]Alex [COLOR=#366388 ! important]Kozinski[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR], the chief judge of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a blistering dissent in which a three-judge panel from his court ruled that search warrants weren't necessary for [COLOR=#366388 ! important][COLOR=#366388 ! important]GPS [COLOR=#366388 ! important]tracking[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR].
But other federal and state courts have come to the opposite conclusion.
So have I dammit. Irregardless that it saves hundreds/thousands of dollars and man hours it's a violation of one's privacy. According to the article they can do this to ANY ONE OF US and well... gee... IMO that's just :bs: unless I am doing something wrong but cannot be charged with or have a legitimate reason to be under surveillance the Feds need to keep their damn hands off my car... and anyone else who is just a regular citizen.

That investigators don't need a warrant to use GPS [COLOR=#366388 ! important][COLOR=#366388 ! important]tracking [COLOR=#366388 ! important]devices[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] in California troubles privacy advocates, technophiles, criminal defense attorneys and others.
It troubles me too. No warrant gives them arbitrary power to pick anyone that even LOOKS suspicious and track them where-ever they may be going.
"The historic line is that public surveillance is not covered by the 4th Amendment," Kerr said.
So they use that as a loophole to do it.

Big Brother I know you're probably watching so umm... F.O!
 

jks9199

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This issue will be before the Supreme Court before long; there are differing rulings on it at several levels.

However, the 4th Amendment does not protect everything you might wish was private. It only protects what is reasonable to be considered private. That one word -- reasonable -- has been the heart of most 4th Amendment jurisprudence. There are several issues involving a GPS tracker on a vehicle, and it's probably going to come out something along the lines of a wire-tap. I would suspect that, in the end, some level of reasonable suspicion will be required to attach and monitor one, and some effort to be required to distinguish the movements of the target from innocent drivers. Which, in reality, is what already happens. While they save time and resources, there are costs associated with using them. They're seldom thrown on a vehicle until some suspicion has already narrowed the focus of an investigation. And you can't simply assume that tracking the car gets you the movements of the person. You don't know who was driving -- or where they went when they stopped driving. But, even with all that, I doubt you'll see a full fledged warrant requirement for the use of a GPS tracker (assuming that placing it doesn't require you to enter private property). Cars are already subject to a lesser expection of privacy (see the Carroll Doctrine), and the movement of the car is something you can easily observe. All that the tracker is doing is allowing you to observe it at a further remove. I'd expect, at most, you'll see a subpoena requirement, or even simply a documented supervisory review.
 

Tez3

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My colleagues and I always check under our cars before getting into them if parked somewhere other than work or a garage, we check for bombs though!
Usually the authorities check where you are through the GPS in your mobile phone though,
 

Bob Hubbard

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My mobile's unlisted and the GPS disabled. ;)

As to things installed...it's my car, if I find it, it's mine, and if they want it back, they can have it back, but it'll require some reassembly.
 

Bill Mattocks

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My mobile's unlisted and the GPS disabled. ;)

Yes, but no. As you travel, your mobile checks in with various towers it encounters, even if you make no calls and receive none during that time. That data is stored.

As to things installed...it's my car, if I find it, it's mine, and if they want it back, they can have it back, but it'll require some reassembly.

Yeah, I don't think I'd even broadcast that fact. GPS? What GPS?
 

Carol

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So the morale of the story is -- change your oil regularly! :D
 

Tez3

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I assume you can do the same in the States as you can here..buy a pay as you go mobile phone? You don't have to register it unless you want to and all you do is register the phone's number to put credit on which you can do with cash. They are untraceable unless the authorities or whatever can connect the number to you, if you are paranoid you could change your phone regularly, the basic phones are very cheap now not much over a tenner. Or you could just use public pay phones though they are getting harder to find here.
 

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I understand if you don't want your cell phone to give your location all you have to do is take the batteries out until you want to make a phone call.

Of course if you are expecting a call...

Deaf
 

Carol

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Depends on the type of phone...and the geography.

If I understand the European mobile network correctly (not my field of expertise)...European folks are more likely to have phones with GPS set on all the time, because of how close together the countries are to one another. Call processing, rates, and tariffs being highly dependent on what country the mobile user happens to be at the moment, which impacted the development of the mobile network. Is there a way around this? I honestly do not know.

In Canada, GPS is not required at all, as Canada has no legal mandate for mobile 911 service (last I heard).

In the United States, FCC lifeline mandated GPS for mobile 911 only in (I think) 2001 or so.

Most, if not all, American mobile phones have the "Location Services" option to toggle the GPS config between "911 only" and "always on".
 
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MA-Caver

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In the United States, FCC lifeline mandated GPS for mobile 911 only in (I think) 2001 or so.

Most, if not all, American mobile phones have the "Location Services" option to toggle the GPS config between "911 only" and "always on".
Yeah, and so... what is to prevent the government from tapping into that system? Ethics??


umm... yeah... riiiiggght, what's ethics?.
 

Carol

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Yeah, and so... what is to prevent the government from tapping into that system? Ethics??


umm... yeah... riiiiggght, what's ethics?.

No, electronics. Turn it off and it significantly improves battery life.
 

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