Carter Offers to Be Hamas Go-between

[Big Don]

Breitbart/AP Story
Excerpt:AIRPORT CITY, Israel (AP) - Former [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]President Jimmy Carter[/FONT] defended his plan to meet with the top leader of the violently anti-Israel Hamas movement, saying Monday he hopes to become a conduit between the [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Islamic militant group[/FONT] and Washington and Israel. Isolating Hamas is counterproductive, Carter said. Hamas rules the Gaza Strip but is ostracized by Israel, the U.S. and European Union as a terrorist group.
=====================================================
Wow. Negotiating WITH terrorists, defying decades of US policy, wasn't enough? Now this old man wants to negotiate on behalf of the terrorists?!
This is beyond the pale. Hamas IS a terrorist orginization, it isn't just that we call them that.
A couple of highlights from the Hamas charter:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
What wonderful friends has Jimmy Carter...

 

[Ray]

He has much experience dealing with middle eastern countries. Let's see, he got a peace prize once for securing peace between Israel and her enimies (I don't think the peace lasted forever).

He also begged and pleaded and cajoled the Iranians to "let our people go." That didn't work out to well.

He also kept us out of the olympics....that kinda sucked (if you were alive at the time).

I heard somewhere that he ordered a submarine to submerge before the hatches were secured (he was a navy captain or something). But that's probably just something somebody made up.

 

[Twin Fist]

oh boy.
Just when i thought i couldnt think any less of Jimmy Carter

 

[Tez3]

Breitbart/AP Story
Excerpt:AIRPORT CITY, Israel (AP) - Former [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]President Jimmy Carter[/FONT] defended his plan to meet with the top leader of the violently anti-Israel Hamas movement, saying Monday he hopes to become a conduit between the [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Islamic militant group[/FONT] and Washington and Israel. Isolating Hamas is counterproductive, Carter said. Hamas rules the Gaza Strip but is ostracized by Israel, the U.S. and European Union as a terrorist group.
=====================================================
Wow. Negotiating WITH terrorists, defying decades of US policy, wasn't enough? Now this old man wants to negotiate on behalf of the terrorists?!
This is beyond the pale. Hamas IS a terrorist orginization, it isn't just that we call them that.
A couple of highlights from the Hamas charter:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
What wonderful friends has Jimmy Carter...

I find it hard to believe they can't spell Muslim though. However it's how Big Don/Twin Fist spell it so I guess that's okay.

 

[elder999]

He has much experience dealing with middle eastern countries. Let's see, he got a peace prize once for securing peace between Israel and her enimies (I don't think the peace lasted forever).

Actually, the Camp David Accords were between Israel and her then enemy, Egypt-and they seem to have lasted so far......

He also begged and pleaded and cajoled the Iranians to "let our people go." That didn't work out to well.

Yeah, there was rescue mission that didn't work out too well either....

He also kept us out of the olympics....that kinda sucked (if you were alive at the time).

What, I guess you thought the Olympics weren't political.....

I heard somewhere that he ordered a submarine to submerge before the hatches were secured (he was a navy captain or something). But that's probably just something somebody made up.

He was washed overboard and back on board during a storm at dock-I don't think he ever commanded a sub, though maybe it's a nuclear sub that he never commanded.....

 

[Grenadier]

I find it hard to believe they can't spell Muslim though. However it's how Big Don/Twin Fist spell it so I guess that's okay.

How is it wrong?

"Moslem" is a perfectly acceptable variant of the word "Muslim."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moslem

 

[Tez3]

That's an American spelling, Muslims spell it as I do because I do them the courtesy of spelling things as they do and it has the added advantage of not looking crass.

 

[elder999]

That's an American spelling, Muslims spell it as I do because I do them the courtesy of spelling things as they do and it has the added advantage of not looking crass.

"Muslims" where, exactly, spell it that way?

If it's an "American spelling," do American muslims spell it that way? I do, but I'm not a muslim....

I'm fairly certain that Chinese, Iraqi, Irani, Pakistani, Indian and Indonesian muslims don't "spell" it that way, except perhaps in English.

I'm also fairly certain that your countryman and Islamic scholar, Sir Richard Francis Burton spelled it moslem, some 100 odd years ago, because that's the way it is pronounced in certain Arabic dialects.

In light of all this, it seems to me that arguing about which spelling is correct, or "American," or "British," is somewhat crass itself, Tez.....it's simply a matter of preference......

 

[Grenadier]

Just because an overly politically correct leaflet (Reporting Diversity) from the UK gov't says so, doesn't mean that the entire world thinks in the same manner.

I've noticed quite a few people of the Moslem faith, both in the US, Europe, and Asia, spell it "Moslem" themselves when they write it in English. The number of people who would be offended by the "Moslem" spelling are about as numerous as those who consider the "Eeenie Meenie Mineeee Mo" rhyme to be offensive, and that's barely a smattering.

 

[Tez3]

Just because an overly politically correct leaflet (Reporting Diversity) from the UK gov't says so, doesn't mean that the entire world thinks in the same manner.

I've noticed quite a few people of the Moslem faith, both in the US, Europe, and Asia, spell it "Moslem" themselves when they write it in English. The number of people who would be offended by the "Moslem" spelling are about as numerous as those who consider the "Eeenie Meenie Mineeee Mo" rhyme to be offensive, and that's barely a smattering.

You've missed my point I'm afraid. it's not about spelling it's about the true authorship of the quote, it's has been changed by someone using the American spelling.

 

[CoryKS]

Actually, the Camp David Accords were between Israel and her then enemy, Egypt-and they seem to have lasted so far......

Yeah, it's amazing what a $2 Billion a year jizya will get ya.

 

[Grenadier]

You've missed my point I'm afraid. it's not about spelling it's about the true authorship of the quote, it's has been changed by someone using the American spelling.

Elder999 has already pointed out, that Sir Richard Francis Burton, a fellow from the UK, seems to be the reason behind many folks using the "Moslem" spelling. It is not an "American spelling" as you assert.

Now, if we were having this conversation in Arabic, and if my spelling were different than the original spelling in Arabic, that's a different story, but since we're discussing this in English, neither spelling is going to be more correct than the other.

 

[Tez3]

Elder999 has already pointed out, that Sir Richard Francis Burton, a fellow from the UK, seems to be the reason behind many folks using the "Moslem" spelling. It is not an "American spelling" as you assert.

Now, if we were having this conversation in Arabic, and if my spelling were different than the original spelling in Arabic, that's a different story, but since we're discussing this in English, neither spelling is going to be more correct than the other.

This isn't about the spelling per se, in the original it was spelt Muslim and was worded less provocatively shall we say, the quote used was changed and also the spelling indicating a person who spells things the American way changed it.

 

[elder999]

This isn't about the spelling per se, in the original it was spelt Muslim and was worded less provocatively shall we say, the quote used was changed and also the spelling indicating a person who spells things the American way changed it.

Oh geez. Go get some sleep, Tez-take a nap, grab a snack or something. :lol:

PRoject Gutenburg Etext of Sir Richard Francis Burton's Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Al-Madinah and Meccah

After my return to Europe, many inquired if I was not the only living
European who has found his way to the Head Quarters of the Moslem
Faith. I may answer in the affirmative, so far, at least, that when
entering the penetralia of Moslem life my Eastern origin was never
questioned, and my position was never what cagots would describe as in
loco apostatae

Just to clarify-the word is most often pronounced "moss-lehm" in Arabic, which means "one who submits to the will of God." To pronounce "Moslem," as some do: "mahz-lehm," means "oppressor," or "evil-person," and could obviously be insulting-thus, the recommended spelling for some is "Muslim," with a still rather ambiguous pronounciation, but one that might be less insulting.....(I bet there are lots of people in this country-aand England!- who pronounce "muslim" much closer to "mahz-lehm" than any one would like, but still spell it "muslim.)

 

[Tez3]

Oh geez. Go get some sleep, Tez. :lol:

PRoject Gutenburg Etext of Sir Richard Francis Burton's Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Al-Madinah and Meccah

Thank you but it's the middle of the afternoon.
Ok lets put it plainly shall I? the OP changed the quote he used to make it read the way he wanted only when changing some of the words he spelt one word differently from the way it was originally written. It doesn't matter a damn how it was spelt in the first place, it was just a clue that he changed it. It's nothing to do with spelling or PCness. The Op is used to spelling that word the American way as he's entitled to , can if he wants to, but forgot the original was spelt differently. I've read the original quote and it reads a bit differently, it's not aggressive enough for the OP to debate though why when there's plenty of stuff around that is.

 

[Twin Fist]

I find it hard to believe they can't spell Muslim though. However it's how Big Don/Twin Fist spell it so I guess that's okay.

Actually tez, I spell it "muslim"

and i am getting sick of your snide little comments. The little insults get old, but hey, i figure it's YOU, it's just your character. And now you AGAIN put on your magic beenie and tell everyone what someone "really" did when the fact is you have no idea. You are making stuff up. How exactly do you KNOW that Don changed the spelling of something on purpose?

You dont. There is no way you could.

I have tried to make a concerted effort to be polite to you, though you NEVER bother to do the same. So i am asking you point blank, would it be possible for you to give it a rest for awhile?

Oh I am sure I will get a "play nice" note from the mods for pointing this out, but I dont really care.

 

[elder999]

Thank you but it's the middle of the afternoon.
Ok lets put it plainly shall I? the OP changed the quote he used to make it read the way he wanted only when changing some of the words he spelt one word differently from the way it was originally written. It doesn't matter a damn how it was spelt in the first place, it was just a clue that he changed it. It's nothing to do with spelling or PCness. The Op is used to spelling that word the American way as he's entitled to , can if he wants to, but forgot the original was spelt differently. I've read the original quote and it reads a bit differently, it's not aggressive enough for the OP to debate though why when there's plenty of stuff around that is.

No, he didn't, Tez-one can find translations of the Hamas Charter using both spellings- Yale University Law School's Avalon Project spells it "Moslem," the Palestine Center spells it-not surprisingly- as "muslim", and the Middle East Media Research Institute spells it "muslim", each in their own English translations of the document-I don't know that Hamas had an official (original) English translation, or that it matters....such distinctions are mostly lost on those of the Islamic faith from countries other than Arabic speaking ones-especially those from the U.S. or U.K., unless theyre immigrants who speak Arabic. Doesn't matter to the Chinese, Indonesians, Pakistanis, Indians, or sub-Saharan Africans-Kenyans, for example-of the Islamic faith. Seems to me that the only one it matters to right now is, well, you.

...now see what you've done? You've reduced me to defending Don, of all people. :lol:

...off to work.

 

[Tez3]

Actually tez, I spell it "muslim"

and i am getting sick of your snide little comments. I have tried to make a concerted effort to be polite to you, though you NEVER bother to do the same. So i am asking you point blank, would it be possible for you to give it a rest for awhile?

Oh I am sure I will get a "play nice" note from the mods for pointing this out, but I dont really care.

I know you don't care, that's the point. You have consistantly been rude and overbearing to people who don't believe the same as you, remember I expressed an opinion and you said it was 100% crap? mmm.
I have never been rude to you, all I've done is question your posts, I've never called you names or said what you post is crap.I have however disagreed with you many times, lifes like that, it makes it interesting.
My post have been gently ironic not rude or needling.
I believe in an old fashioned thing like playing the game, a concept well known to martial artists as well as many others. You haven't played the game, your posts to everyone have been consistantly abrasive and mocking. The people on this forum are the fairest I've come across and have patiently tried to argue their points politely, with care and with courtesy yet haven't received the same in return.

 

[Tez3]

No, he didn't, Tez-one can find translations of the Hamas Charter using both spellings- Yale University Law School's Avalon Project spells it "Moslem," the Palestine Center spells it-not surprisingly- as "muslim", and the Middle East Media Research Institute spells it "muslim", each in their own English translations of the document-I don't know that Hamas had an official (original) English translation, or that it matters....such distinctions are mostly lost on those of the Islamic faith from countries other than Arabic speaking ones-especially those from the U.S. or U.K., unless theyre immigrants who speak Arabic. Doesn't matter to the Chinese, Indonesians, Pakistanis, Indians, or sub-Saharan Africans-Kenyans, for example-of the Islamic faith. Seems to me that the only one it matters to right now is, well, you.

...now see what you've done? You've reduced me to defending Don, of all people. :lol:

...off to work.

it matters because we are discussing a document quoted by someone and the wording has been changed to make a point that the original document didn't make, the spelling was just by way of a pointer to the OP so I didn't have to spell it all out as it were (sorry for pun) that he'd changed it.
sorry if it was too obtuse but I didn't want to have to blatently say (oi mate, you've changed the words to make it more inflammatory" and you've insulted our intelligence.

 

[CoryKS]

At least we're dealing in text, God knows what sort of hell she'd give us in discussing Eye-rack.

Really, we're talking about the difference in what chicken scratches we use when translating from another set of chicken scratches. There's going to be a few deviations. Hell, the newspapers can't even figure out which spelling of Q'ur'an$ they want to use.