Candle training for taiji. good? bad? your experience?

[Blaze Dragon]

So there are candle training drills, you essentially light a candle and stand a bit away from it and then if you are doing your fajin correctly the air from your movement puts the candle out.

Has anyone else heard of this training? what are your thoughts on it and have you done it? has it helped?

I've tried it a few times, I'm not certain if it's a good example of fajin, and obviously if your flicking your wrist at the end your defeating the purpose of the drill. I think it seems to help with speed and oomf.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

Blaze, you bring up an interesting subject. I have seen this done by a tai chi teacher who is a part of Shaolin-do, and I have seen it done by Al Case.

If anyone on this site practices this and wants to discuss it that would be interesting.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

Yeah you see here and there. these are just the first ones I found online youtube search, just to give an idea.

[video=youtube_share;QhWzWJxNXpY]http://youtu.be/QhWzWJxNXpY[/video]
[video=youtube_share;KBi0LQyoSa0]http://youtu.be/KBi0LQyoSa0[/video]
[video=youtube_share;pCtqgiHcc8I]http://youtu.be/pCtqgiHcc8I[/video]
[video=youtube_share;1FAkJrISVlo]http://youtu.be/1FAkJrISVlo[/video]

thought he last one kinda defeats the purpose. since it seems like hes just move air with a hand wave, vs a strike. the way I was taught is to have your whole hand open and do like a palm strike it should be straight in and out while doing the sinking and taiji movement, so basically a taiji palm heel strike. if your doing the correct technique and can put the candle out your doing it correctly.

 

[blindsage]

I'm not sure putting a candle out demonstrates anything but good speed and knowing when to snap your fist or hand in order to create a little whip of air. It doesn't demonstrate anything related to good punching technique for combat/self defense. Nobody teaches pulling the punch like they do in those videos. Fajin is not a type of punching (although it can be used as part of a punch), and none of those videos demonstrates fajin. Fajin doesn't need wind up or distance to work, and it can come from any part of the body not just the hands. If someone is using a big waving of the hand or distance in order to do it then they don't understand fajin. If they're just using fajin at the end of the movement and for the sake of argument it was a good test of fajin, then they should be able to do the same thing without the waving or distance.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

I'm not sure putting a candle out demonstrates anything but good speed and knowing when to snap your fist or hand in order to create a little whip of air. It doesn't demonstrate anything related to good punching technique for combat/self defense. Nobody teaches pulling the punch like they do in those videos. Fajin is not a type of punching (although it can be used as part of a punch), and none of those videos demonstrates fajin. Fajin doesn't need wind up or distance to work, and it can come from any part of the body not just the hands. If someone is using a big waving of the hand or distance in order to do it then they don't understand fajin. If they're just using fajin at the end of the movement and for the sake of argument it was a good test of fajin, then they should be able to do the same thing without the waving or distance.

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to say any of these videos are good examples just that I know alot of people do work with punching out candles and was curious as to everyone's opinion of why

 

[Xue Sheng]

At best it is a parlor trick and not worth much to taijiquan

 

[Vajramusti]

At best it is a parlor trick and not worth much to taijiquan

Yup

 

[Tez3]

It's done in a few styles of martial arts as a 'training exercise', when I Googled it there were pages of stuff relating to it from all sorts of places this link was just at the top of the list http://timrosanelli.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/karate-speed-training-advanced-candle.html

 

[Sukerkin]

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to say any of these videos are good examples just that I know alot of people do work with punching out candles and was curious as to everyone's opinion of why

Don't worry if some of the responses to your questions seem a little negative, BLD. Some of us have been doing our respective arts for a long time and our answers tend to get shorter in proportion to the number of times we've had to handle the same question . But all of us still remember that the only way that you learn anything is to ask when you are not sure about something. The worst students in the world are those that never ask {well, apart from the ones who ask the same question too many times :lol: }.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

Don't worry if some of the responses to your questions seem a little negative, BLD. Some of us have been doing our respective arts for a long time and our answers tend to get shorter in proportion to the number of times we've had to handle the same question . But all of us still remember that the only way that you learn anything is to ask when you are not sure about something. The worst students in the world are those that never ask {well, apart from the ones who ask the same question too many times :lol: }.

No worries, I've been hiding in my little corner of the world, going to class and pretty much being a hermit, any interaction with other martial artists is great even online forums. It's cool to get different opinions, but I thank you kindly for the nice words, I like the community feel of martial talk. We all do different things and have different takes on them. I figure if we share what we do regardless of believing it or having the same opinion we are opening each other to possibilities and considerations.

 

[oaktree]

Chen xiaowang talks alot about silk reeling, dan tian rotation that is better method
In dealing with fa jin.