Can Tai Chi benefit a Karate practitioner?

[ThatOneCanadian]

Hello everyone! This is my first thread here and I know absolutely nothing about Tai Chi so my apologies if I sound highly uneducated.

I am a practitioner of Shotokan Karate who has been interested in Chinese martial arts for a very long time. The circular nature of Chinese styles in contrast to Shotokan's very brutal, penetrative motions intrigues me, so much so to the point where I want to cross-train Tai Chi with Shotokan. With that being said, I have a few questions about Tai Chi:

1.) Is it a good idea to cross train Tai Chi with a hard art such as Shotokan?

2.) With many martial arts, they say you cannot learn them from a book/video, with most people insisting that learning them in-person from an actual instructor is vital. Is this the case with Tai Chi? Is it possible to learn Tai Chi from an online class or video and still get the same benefits, or is participating in a class recommended?

3.) To my knowledge, there are multiple styles of Tai Chi, with some being more external/hard and others being more internal/soft. How do I figure out which one is which? Is one more common than the other?

4.) Can Tai Chi by itself improve flexibility? Could this improvement be noticeable in a young, healthy adult? Or is it be more beneficial to older or less mobile individuals?

5.) Can Tai Chi help with the synchronization of the lower and upper body in physical activity? This is something I struggle with in Karate, particularly with kata (or taolu, which I think is the Chinese term), a practice in which body synchronization is vital.

6.) Is Tai Chi a good art for someone who is recovering from a leg injury? My right knee got dislocated a little less than a month ago and, while it's largely healed, I'm limited in terms of high-impact physical activity.

7.) Final question for people who do both Karate and Tai Chi: do you notice any overlap between Tai Chi patterns and Karate kata? The connection between Chinese and Okinawan/Japanese arts fascinates me.

I hope these questions aren't too much. Feel free to answer any of them at all, even if just one.

 

[MadMartigan]

2.) With many martial arts, they say you cannot learn them from a book/video, with most people insisting that learning them in-person from an actual instructor is vital. Is this the case with Tai Chi? Is it possible to learn Tai Chi from an online class or video and still get the same benefits, or is participating in a class recommended?

I can't speak with a great deal of knowledge here; and can only point out a parallel in my experience. I have never done Tai Chi.
I took up Wing Chun after over 18yrs in an old, very Karate-like Tae Kwon-Do style. The lessons I learned there on creating forward energy while blocking and moving from new stance positions have been transformative in my TKD forms. This didn't happen on it's own. I had to put the time in to find the parallels and understand how these techniques were really showing the same end from different perspectives.
I believe that a book could not have taught these lessons. You need a real teacher to show you how these movements work... not just how they look.
My WC Sifu told us that there are many similar lessons and applications between Tai Chi and Wing Chun (as long as you find a teacher who know them and didn't just take a fitness and movement class in the park).

 

[Faith]

I practiced karatea few years ago within a new style named "Makotokai". They have combined several elements from Tai Chi in it like breathing excerices, stands, rooting and so on.

Makotokai Karate

Makotokai Headquarters

makotokai.com

Makotokai Neijia

Makotokai Headquarters

makotokai.com

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hello everyone! This is my first thread here and I know absolutely nothing about Tai Chi so my apologies if I sound highly uneducated.

I am a practitioner of Shotokan Karate who has been interested in Chinese martial arts for a very long time. The circular nature of Chinese styles in contrast to Shotokan's very brutal, penetrative motions intrigues me, so much so to the point where I want to cross-train Tai Chi with Shotokan. With that being said, I have a few questions about Tai Chi:[/QUOTE}

It can help, if you put in the time. I trained with several Karate folks over the years in Taijiquan, even trained a few, and of all of them, only 1 Uechi-Ryū stuck it out long enough. The biggest issue I have seen with Karate folks and TKD folks, is relaxation in the form and application. You tend to be very stiff

1.) Is it a good idea to cross train Tai Chi with a hard art such as Shotokan?

Depends on what you are looking for and how much time, and effort, you plan on dedicating to it

2.) With many martial arts, they say you cannot learn them from a book/video, with most people insisting that learning them in-person from an actual instructor is vital. Is this the case with Tai Chi? Is it possible to learn Tai Chi from an online class or video and still get the same benefits, or is participating in a class recommended?

No, for that matter, depending on what you are looking for, you may not even find it in a class. Most teaching Taijiquan today ONLY know taijiquan as a moving meditation. But again, it all depends on what you are looking for and what you hope to get out of it

3.) To my knowledge, there are multiple styles of Tai Chi, with some being more external/hard and others being more internal/soft. How do I figure out which one is which? Is one more common than the other?

There are no hard/external taijiquan styles, there are just those with obvious fajin and those without obvious fajin. All taijiquan styles are labeled internal

The main schools are Chen, Yang, Wu/Hao, Wu and Sun. There are others but those are the main families, there is also Cheng Manching style (an offshoot of Yang) and Zhaobao possibly in that group too. It is highly unlikely you will find a Zhaobao, Wu/Hao. or Sun school, but they are out there. What you will see most is Yang and most teaching Yang are only teaching moving meditation. There are also a lot of Cheng Manching teachers out there, but again not all train it as a martial art. And then there is Chen. More likely to find martial arts taught, but i n the newer generations of the Chen family (20th generation) it is not so much martial taijiquan as it is Sanda/Sanshou.

Note: there are various Wu family styles, Northern Wu and Southern Wu and possible Shanghai Wu as well

4.) Can Tai Chi by itself improve flexibility? Could this improvement be noticeable in a young, healthy adult? Or is it be more beneficial to older or less mobile individuals?

More likely to see the improvements in someone less flexible to start with. But you will see improvements. And from a Karate perspective you will see an improvement in flexibility based on proper relaxation

5.) Can Tai Chi help with the synchronization of the lower and upper body in physical activity? This is something I struggle with in Karate, particularly with kata (or taolu, which I think is the Chinese term), a practice in which body synchronization is vital.'

kata and Taolu? modern Wushu maybe. Do you mean Dalu? If so they are not the same

Upper and lower unity is what Taiji does. It is what most internal arts do (Baguazhang, Xingyiquan, Liuhebafa) but a lot of Chinese martial arts styles are working for whole body unity

6.) Is Tai Chi a good art for someone who is recovering from a leg injury? My right knee got dislocated a little less than a month ago and, while it's largely healed, I'm limited in terms of high-impact physical activity.

You need to talk to your doctor about that, I will not give medical advice since I am not qualified to do so.

7.) Final question for people who do both Karate and Tai Chi: do you notice any overlap between Tai Chi patterns and Karate kata? The connection between Chinese and Okinawan/Japanese arts fascinates me.

Couldn't tell you, I never trained Karate for more than 2 weeks. But I doubt it, none of the karate folks I know that tried, or did, taijiquan ever said anything about similarity. Most struggled with the relaxation of the form and developing power without hard karate movements and the occasional kiai...which does not exist in taijiquan

 

[punisher73]

Private Site

Very famous Shotokan master studied both.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This new forum software is driving me nuts. It keeps throwing in quotes so I will have to answer each question in a separate post

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hello everyone! This is my first thread here and I know absolutely nothing about Tai Chi so my apologies if I sound highly uneducated.

I am a practitioner of Shotokan Karate who has been interested in Chinese martial arts for a very long time. The circular nature of Chinese styles in contrast to Shotokan's very brutal, penetrative motions intrigues me, so much so to the point where I want to cross-train Tai Chi with Shotokan. With that being said, I have a few questions about Tai Chi:[/QUOTE}

It can help, if you put in the time. I trained with several Karate folks over the years in Taijiquan, even trained a few, and of all of them, only 1 Uechi-Ryū stuck it out long enough. The biggest issue I have seen with Karate folks and TKD folks, is relaxation in the form and application. You tend to be very stiff

 

[Xue Sheng]

1.) Is it a good idea to cross train Tai Chi with a hard art such as Shotokan?

Depends on what you are looking for and how much time, and effort, you plan on dedicating to it

 

[Xue Sheng]

2.) With many martial arts, they say you cannot learn them from a book/video, with most people insisting that learning them in-person from an actual instructor is vital. Is this the case with Tai Chi? Is it possible to learn Tai Chi from an online class or video and still get the same benefits, or is participating in a class recommended?

No, for that matter, depending on what you are looking for, you may not even find it in a class. Most teaching Taijiquan today ONLY know taijiquan as a moving meditation. But again, it all depends on what you are looking for and what you hope to get out of it

 

[Xue Sheng]

3.) To my knowledge, there are multiple styles of Tai Chi, with some being more external/hard and others being more internal/soft. How do I figure out which one is which? Is one more common than the other?

There are no hard/external taijiquan styles, there are just those with obvious fajin and those without obvious fajin. All taijiquan styles are labeled internal

The main schools are Chen, Yang, Wu/Hao, Wu and Sun. There are others but those are the main families, there is also Cheng Manching style (an offshoot of Yang) and Zhaobao possibly in that group too. It is highly unlikely you will find a Zhaobao, Wu/Hao. or Sun school, but they are out there. What you will see most is Yang and most teaching Yang are only teaching moving meditation. There are also a lot of Cheng Manching teachers out there, but again not all train it as a martial art. And then there is Chen. More likely to find martial arts taught, but i n the newer generations of the Chen family (20th generation) it is not so much martial taijiquan as it is Sanda/Sanshou.

Note: there are various Wu family styles, Northern Wu and Southern Wu and possible Shanghai Wu as well

4.) Can Tai Chi by itself improve flexibility? Could this improvement be noticeable in a young, healthy adult? Or is it be more beneficial to older or less mobile individuals?

More likely to see the improvements in someone less flexible to start with. But you will see improvements. And from a Karate perspective you will see an improvement in flexibility based on proper relaxation

5.) Can Tai Chi help with the synchronization of the lower and upper body in physical activity? This is something I struggle with in Karate, particularly with kata (or taolu, which I think is the Chinese term), a practice in which body synchronization is vital.'

kata and Taolu? modern Wushu maybe. Do you mean Dalu? If so they are not the same

Upper and lower unity is what Taiji does. It is what most internal arts do (Baguazhang, Xingyiquan, Liuhebafa) but a lot of Chinese martial arts styles are working for whole body unity

6.) Is Tai Chi a good art for someone who is recovering from a leg injury? My right knee got dislocated a little less than a month ago and, while it's largely healed, I'm limited in terms of high-impact physical activity.

You need to talk to your doctor about that, I will not give medical advice since I am not qualified to do so.

7.) Final question for people who do both Karate and Tai Chi: do you notice any overlap between Tai Chi patterns and Karate kata? The connection between Chinese and Okinawan/Japanese arts fascinates me.

Couldn't tell you, I never trained Karate for more than 2 weeks. But I doubt it, none of the karate folks I know that tried, or did, taijiquan ever said anything about similarity. Most struggled with the relaxation of the form and developing power without hard karate movements and the occasional kiai...which does not exist in taijiquan

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well the whole multiple quote thing is a lot harder and more time consuming than it use to be

 

[Buka]

I consider myself a hard core Martial Artist, Karate, Boxing, Kickboxing, BJJ and competing in anything and everything for a long time.

But Tai Chi? Tai Chi is da bomb. It's like medicine for your soul and medicine for your other arts, both inside and out.

But you REALLY need a Tai Chi instructor to teach you for a while.

And @Xue, thanks again for hooking me up and getting me back in it a few years ago.

 

[dvcochran]

Hello everyone! This is my first thread here and I know absolutely nothing about Tai Chi so my apologies if I sound highly uneducated.

I am a practitioner of Shotokan Karate who has been interested in Chinese martial arts for a very long time. The circular nature of Chinese styles in contrast to Shotokan's very brutal, penetrative motions intrigues me, so much so to the point where I want to cross-train Tai Chi with Shotokan. With that being said, I have a few questions about Tai Chi:

1.) Is it a good idea to cross train Tai Chi with a hard art such as Shotokan?

2.) With many martial arts, they say you cannot learn them from a book/video, with most people insisting that learning them in-person from an actual instructor is vital. Is this the case with Tai Chi? Is it possible to learn Tai Chi from an online class or video and still get the same benefits, or is participating in a class recommended?

3.) To my knowledge, there are multiple styles of Tai Chi, with some being more external/hard and others being more internal/soft. How do I figure out which one is which? Is one more common than the other?

4.) Can Tai Chi by itself improve flexibility? Could this improvement be noticeable in a young, healthy adult? Or is it be more beneficial to older or less mobile individuals?

5.) Can Tai Chi help with the synchronization of the lower and upper body in physical activity? This is something I struggle with in Karate, particularly with kata (or taolu, which I think is the Chinese term), a practice in which body synchronization is vital.

6.) Is Tai Chi a good art for someone who is recovering from a leg injury? My right knee got dislocated a little less than a month ago and, while it's largely healed, I'm limited in terms of high-impact physical activity.

7.) Final question for people who do both Karate and Tai Chi: do you notice any overlap between Tai Chi patterns and Karate kata? The connection between Chinese and Okinawan/Japanese arts fascinates me.

I hope these questions aren't too much. Feel free to answer any of them at all, even if just one.

1.) Yes and YES! Cross any opposing styles, any styles at all really is a very, very good thing. I was fortunate that My MDK TKD GM is also experienced in Kung Fu. I was learning circular movements before I really knew there was a difference. But they blend and work very effectively with a 'head on' style like Shotokan.

2.) I am in the camp that video/online is very good for supplementation but is not a good teacher on it's own.

4.) With time and smart, dedicated effort any style should help a person's flexibility.

5.) Are you asking for Tai Chi can make you more coordinated? Sure, I cannot see why not.

6.) As others have said, talk to your doctor. Any kicking style is going to bear risk to a compromised knee.

7.) Over time you should recognize that some of the movements are the same basic movement. But they will most always be done quite differently. Finding the benefits and/or connections in each can be a really, really cool thing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you add Taiji principle into Karate, you will lose that 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, and still 1, 2, 3, 4, ...

 

[_Simon_]

I practiced karatea few years ago within a new style named "Makotokai". They have combined several elements from Tai Chi in it like breathing excerices, stands, rooting and so on.

Makotokai Karate

Makotokai Headquarters

makotokai.com

Makotokai Neijia

Makotokai Headquarters

makotokai.com

Faith, that style looks awesome, definitely something I'd train in if it were closer!

 

[_Simon_]

Great to see a Shotokan practitioner aboard, welcome!!!

As others have said, aaaabsolutely it would help. I don't practice Taichi, but many people have said how much it had helped them.

I do however every now and then practice my katas in a "Tai-chi style" way, very very slowly and in a relaxed way (of course that's not the whole picture of Tai Chi). But I've found that very helpful for my practice and I've learned alot from it.

 

[mograph]

1.) Is it a good idea to cross train Tai Chi with a hard art such as Shotokan?

Sure, as long as you know which one you're doing, and know why you are performing specific actions. You might find some conflict, because good taijiquan (tai-ji-chwan) distributes effort throughout the body, rather than concentrating it in one place. Maybe that's a problem, maybe not.

2.) With many martial arts, they say you cannot learn them from a book/video, with most people insisting that learning them in-person from an actual instructor is vital. Is this the case with Tai Chi? Is it possible to learn Tai Chi from an online class or video and still get the same benefits, or is participating in a class recommended?

You can only roughly learn choreography from a DVD, and certainly not from a book. It is essential to learn from a teacher, but the writings in a book (not the pictures) can supplement your teaching. I like the book Nei Jia Quan for that purpose.

3.) To my knowledge, there are multiple styles of Tai Chi, with some being more external/hard and others being more internal/soft. How do I figure out which one is which? Is one more common than the other?

Taijiquan doesn't make a hard/soft internal/external distinction. You probably want Chen style, which differs in that it is more likely that you will learn martial applications in a Chen class, and I think you want that. Yang is most popular, but not a lot of classes teach applications. I can't speak for Wu or Sun, but Wu/Hao apparently uses much smaller movements; good for people who practice Zhan Zhuang and Yiquan.

4.) Can Tai Chi by itself improve flexibility? Could this improvement be noticeable in a young, healthy adult? Or is it be more beneficial to older or less mobile individuals?

Yoga is better for flexibility. One assumes that you stretch outside of taijiquan class, on your own. Beware of classes that incorporate stretching into the form: you get bad stretching and bad taijiquan.

5.) Can Tai Chi help with the synchronization of the lower and upper body in physical activity? This is something I struggle with in Karate, particularly with kata (or taolu, which I think is the Chinese term), a practice in which body synchronization is vital.

Yes, but you need to develop high sensitivity to be able to tell when you are out of sync. It's up to you more than it is up to the art. Move more slowly, quiet your mind, listen to your body sensations, and be calm.

6.) Is Tai Chi a good art for someone who is recovering from a leg injury? My right knee got dislocated a little less than a month ago and, while it's largely healed, I'm limited in terms of high-impact physical activity.

It's low-impact, but you will be asked to put weight on one leg more than the other. Watch a video of a set and see if you can do what they are doing.

7.) Final question for people who do both Karate and Tai Chi: do you notice any overlap between Tai Chi patterns and Karate kata? The connection between Chinese and Okinawan/Japanese arts fascinates me.

I don't do Karate, but I think you might find more similarity between Taijiquan and Goju-Ryu (more circular), not Shotokan (more linear).

If you can find anywhere that teaches Yiquan, Taikiken, or Zhan Zhuang, I recommend those, as they are good conditioning for any martial art. But they're hard to find.

Hope that helps.

 

[ThatOneCanadian]

All of these replies are more than what I expected o_o wow thank all of you. I'm reading that Hirokazu article as we speak. Osu!

 

[TCJ]

Hello everyone! This is my first thread here and I know absolutely nothing about Tai Chi so my apologies if I sound highly uneducated.

I am a practitioner of Shotokan Karate who has been interested in Chinese martial arts for a very long time. The circular nature of Chinese styles in contrast to Shotokan's very brutal, penetrative motions intrigues me, so much so to the point where I want to cross-train Tai Chi with Shotokan. With that being said, I have a few questions about Tai Chi:

1.) Is it a good idea to cross train Tai Chi with a hard art such as Shotokan?

2.) With many martial arts, they say you cannot learn them from a book/video, with most people insisting that learning them in-person from an actual instructor is vital. Is this the case with Tai Chi? Is it possible to learn Tai Chi from an online class or video and still get the same benefits, or is participating in a class recommended?

3.) To my knowledge, there are multiple styles of Tai Chi, with some being more external/hard and others being more internal/soft. How do I figure out which one is which? Is one more common than the other?

4.) Can Tai Chi by itself improve flexibility? Could this improvement be noticeable in a young, healthy adult? Or is it be more beneficial to older or less mobile individuals?

5.) Can Tai Chi help with the synchronization of the lower and upper body in physical activity? This is something I struggle with in Karate, particularly with kata (or taolu, which I think is the Chinese term), a practice in which body synchronization is vital.

6.) Is Tai Chi a good art for someone who is recovering from a leg injury? My right knee got dislocated a little less than a month ago and, while it's largely healed, I'm limited in terms of high-impact physical activity.

7.) Final question for people who do both Karate and Tai Chi: do you notice any overlap between Tai Chi patterns and Karate kata? The connection between Chinese and Okinawan/Japanese arts fascinates me.

I hope these questions aren't too much. Feel free to answer any of them at all, even if just one.

Hello, I have enjoyed your questions. Answers have much to do with your intentions. Much of tai chi today is for health though there are still many schools that teach it for self-defense. The forms are similar, if not the same.

Answers to your questions:

1.) Years ago I knew someone who was quite good at Uechi Ryu. He learned some tai chi and started to win kata competitions at tournaments. He felt that it was the tai chi that helped him. I knew another Uechi student who had incredible tension. His muscles were chronically tense. He found tai chi challenging.

2.) You can learn tai chi basics from a video but a video can't tell you what you are doing wrong. How far do you wish to go?

3.) Of the 5 traditional (orthodox) styles of tai chi, Chen Style looks most like a martial art. It separates yin and yang, resulting in slow/soft movements and hard/fast movements. The other styles promote hardness within softness. This is a difficult concept to grasp and takes a lot of work to achieve. In the traditional styles the goal is to feel chi and move it with intention.

4.) Tai chi can improve flexibility. It does so by releasing tension from the inside out. I've known young people with a lot of tension and tai chi helped.

5.) Much of tai chi and its advancement has to do with integrating upper and lower body movement. Tai chi teaches to create a sort of chain of movement where all is connected.

6.) Tai chi can be very good for knees but there are important rules for avoiding damage. Done correctly, tai chi can improve knee health with smoother internal surfaces and increased production of synovial fluid.

7.) I don't know of an overlap of patterns between tai chi and karate. I have never practiced karate. I have heard that Tang Soo Do was based on tai chi to some degree. I don't know how. Karate is linear, tai chi is very round (the movements tend to use a lot of curves and turns.)

Tai chi practice would probably be good for a karate student. But, to achieve high level tai chi skills, one has to lose tension. It's a concept called 'song.' Song involves softness and opening the joints. That goes somewhat counter to hard style arts.

I hope this is helpful.

- TCJ taichicrossroads.blogspot.com

 

[Hanshi]

While I know next to nothing about Tai Chi I did train under a teacher for a little more than 6 or 7 months maybe longer. yes the knees felt it big time, and the thighs. I've always trained primarily in the "hard" styles, karate, taekwondo, judo. But I never had a problem with relaxed muscles & movement. I stopped the tai chi simply out of growing boredom and time constraints. An interesting thing I quickly noticed was that my aikido training fell right in line with the tai chi as both required relaxation. I had some hard style students who could never do aikido because they simply couldn't relax or let their arms and legs become "whips" instead of the rigid battering rams they practiced with. One problem with some practitioners is too much reliance on strength - which is only one constituent of "power" - instead of "true power".

One common misconception is that studying "hard" styles makes it difficult to relax; this is not necessarily so. There is little true power in a tense karate punch; 98% of that punch should be in a relaxed state with tension only applied at moment of contact. Similarly, boxing punches should properly be thrown from a relaxed state or they will be slow and lose power. But boxing differs in that while karate speeds into and through the target a boxing punch actually slows slightly at impact. Karate punches cause deep damage while a boxer wants to snap the opponent's head for a knockout. So any "relaxing" style bestows benefits beyond simply learning a a style such as tai chi. Tai chi can't help but enrich a karate experience.