Callus

[Pyrael]

hi
for sometime now, i've been training on a makiwara and been trying to gain callus on the two knuckles you puch with. now i recieved instructions from my dad who was a shotokan practicioner in his days and he says it took quite a while to gain it. how long does it specifically take though? any tips? and how do you feel on this subject?

 

[Cthulhu]

Ugh. The purpose of makiwara training shouldn't be to gain callouses. Besides, it just doesn't do a very good job of it.

Cthulhu

 

[Pyrael]

i dont train on the makiwara for the purpose of callouses; notice i said 'and'...i do however do use it for the development of a better, stabler, stronger punch. it does do that effectively right? anyways would you put down more effective methods of gaining callouses? you left me hanging on your last post with that question.

 

[Cthulhu]

I honestly couldn't say, since I don't particularly worry about callouses (except when they rip off...saw a guy get a callous ripped off his foot. Nasty). When I played bass and guitar a lot, I'd get a lot of callouses on my fingers, but I wasn't trying to develop them.

I think that with enough training, they'll start to develop. Knuckle pushups on rough carpet may help. Punching canvas punching bags with no gloves may also help.

I don't advocate any of these methods, but you asked.

Cthulhu

 

[DJDragon]

Knuckle push ups work for me. I tend to bite the skin on my knuckles as well. I haven't got huge callouses (?) but the skin is quite tough compared to what it used to be.

But now my knuckles look extremely ugly!

 

[Turner]

For those that are interested in creating callouses, the chinese do have some sort of concoction that speeds up the process somehow.

Knuckle push-ups on concrete or gravel will do the trick real quick. Ensure that only your punching knuckles are in contact with the ground and if you are really tough, twist your knuckles as you push yourself up. I used that technique to just get in the habit of using the two knuckles for a punch, but after they were beaten to a bloody pulp they formed callouses... in just about three weeks time.

It'll actually take a long time using the makiwara to get callouses because not 'real' damage is being done to the knuckles (unless you are leaving blood stains after the drill). In order to get the body to react, you've got to give it something to react to.

And, I'm with Cthulhu, I don't actually advice doing that because it is pretty much useless in this day and age. Toughening the hands was for punching through bamboo armor that the samurai wore. Once people start walking around wearing wood breastplates, then I'll start trying to develop callouses on my hands. Until then I'm going to give my girlfriend something the will actually want to hold onto and be confident in the knowledge that it only takes a mere 10-20 pounds of pressure to do serious damage to the human body and can generate several hundred (thousands with some techniques) pounds of pressure with my hands as they are. :EG: But you'll do as you will and I wish you the best of luck...

 

[Yari]

My opion is don't go for callouses since it's a sign of broken(ruined) skin, or some other problem. It's the skins way of saying something is wrong, I need to "defend" myself against it. You can't train contact MA with getting somekind of callouses. But remember your smashing your bones and skin in pieces. And there a chances that you'll get arthritis(sp?) when you get old. Same again, the bodys way of taking care of something.

There are many good and "healthy " ways of hitting stuff, like people, with out the form of conditioning.

But remember it's important that you learn to hit correctly, and a makiwara can help with that.


/Yari

 

[Pyrael]

thanks for the recent replies...

my knuckles arent at the level of expectation that most martial artists would precieve callous but now they are pretty tough

when i passed by sdsu (tekken4 tourney ) i came across a big group of people who are having an amateur board breaking contest... and i mean really amateur cuz they were all as if they were recording a jackass segment...since ive been training on the makiwara, i decided to test the result of it. the guy who was holding the pine board (2 1/2 inches with no special treatment like soaked in water or anything. its the common wood i usually have to break during a test i believe) was bleeding on the middle knuckles of his fore and middle finger. obviously he and the other spectators/participants knew nothing on what to do on this sorta thing. so when i came into the scene i asked the board holder to position the board in the proper way (verticle with a front stance for support) but he never took my advice seriously. with his lack of cooperation, i just decided to give it a shot anyway...i used a reverse punch (gyakuzaki right?) and left only 2 distinctly deep dents...the effect that it had on my hand was nothing; the nerve which usually caused me pain whenever i had to break boards in a belt test was gone. of course i would've been pissed to see that i couldnt break the damn thing but the dude w/ the board kept slanting it to the right...didnt want anymore bleeding on his hands if you ask me

 

[Deathtrap101]

Im pretty new and young and ignorent, what exactly is a makiwara?I think i know but im realy not sure.

 

[ZenYuchia]

Just hit a bag, and do it a lot I have a bag in my room and throw 1200 punches a day (except when I play hockey). 3 punching techniques x 2 hands x 150 reps each had = nice calluses on my top two knuckles (not big ugly ones, you can't tell looking at them)
by the way never do that hard core knuckle conditioning kutikitai(sp) you will have crazy arthritis later in life.

-Dave

 

[Danny]

Get a small piece of carpet. Carry it around with you. When ever you have a minute get it out and twist your knuckles into it until tender. Repeat several hundred times. If you can find it platain cream works well for healing the skin after each session so you can do it again. When the carpet gets to soft, flip in over and use the back side.

 

[Nightingale]

callouses will come when and where you need them. beyond that, don't worry about it.

 

[Pyrael]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

callouses will come when and where you need them. beyond that, don't worry about it.

expaciate please.

 

[Nightingale]

calluses are your body's way of protecting the integrity of your skin. your body will create calluses where you need them. you don't need to try to make them. they come on their own. through doing whatever activity you are doing, you will create calluses exactly where you need them. trying to artificially create them doesn't always get them in just the right spot, and then you still don't have them where you need them, and they're prone to ripping. a friend of mine did the same thing you're trying to do to...get calluses on the knuckles. he did it by rubbing his knuckles on stuff. then, when he threw a punch at something, the callus was very slightly off to one side. the target he was hitting snagged the edge of the callus and ripped it off. I was there. believe me, it hurt.

 

[Pyrael]

hmm...ill keep that in mind. but wouldnt your friend get the same consequence even if he didnt have callouses?

 

[theneuhauser]

it hurts a whole lot more when it's a callous coming off. and in reference to your own training, i would say do whatever the hell you want to yourself. the callouses will most likely begin to dissappear at a faster rate than what it took to get them to form after you (most likely) decide to quit that makiwara business.
i consider that training highly specialized and most folks dont need it.
do you train finger strength, or shins, or eyesight or reflexes, etc.?
there are alot of individual skills, seems like nowadays people need to pick and choose from the more beneficial or useful skills anyways.

 

[Pyrael]

what i was thinking about when i started this thread is that callouses were a beneficial thing to have. i thought toughening of the skin would actually prevent cuts/nightningale's friends incident. i see thats wrong.

but i was also thinking about the bone/the knuckles. training on the maki dulled my nerves and help me grow a better, stable straight-punch. tough skin plus dull nerves along with strong wrist/strike was really what i was trying to gain.

theneuhauser: your last two sentences gives me a sense of hostility. if you're saying the method of getting callouses to be ripped off is stupid i agree with you...but if you're trying to say something else i would like to hear it plainly.

 

[theneuhauser]

Originally posted by Pyrael

theneuhauser: your last two sentences gives me a sense of hostility. if you're saying the method of getting callouses to be ripped off is stupid i agree with you...but if you're trying to say something else i would like to hear it plainly.

im not sure why you might feel hostility in either direction here tiger.

do you train finger strength, or shins, or eyesight or reflexes, etc.?

there are alot of individual skills, seems like nowadays people need to pick and choose from the more beneficial or useful skills anyways.

here are my last 2 sentances. this has nothing to do with stupid training. im talking about the clock. old training methods take alot of time out of your day and the average person cant commit themselves to all the methods that the career bodyguards used to do 400 years ago.
I was asking you what specific conditioning methods you do or would like to do. some have more universal benefits than others.
Myself find it hard to do much specific conditioning at all. after school, and work i have time for practice and the gym(i try to keep it oriented towards training there), and after homework and life's little duties and time with my wife im usually left with about 2 or 3 hours in the week. i like to train with the heavy bag whenever possible, i do wrist and palm conditioning for striking and sometimes forearm, grip and finger strength. i feel like i really need 5 or 6 hrs/wk to train these skills right.
now if time wasnt a factor, i would train with light feet, shins, cat toy, speed bag and leaping/quickness drills. but here i "pick and choose" from what i consider more beneficial skill sets.
anyhow, IMHO putting hard callouses on your knuckles is not a terribly useful way to spend your own time. i understand if you disagree.

 

[Pyrael]

O_O i felt hostility when you said "people need to pick and choose from the more beneficial or useful skills anyways." i assumed people being me and also a question of the benefits of this type of training. but i see your point and sorry for the flare.

as for the question, i do train on the shins. mines are especially sensitive and would be the number 1 spot to knock me down. i usually use a wooden shaft/staff or bo/etc and roll it up n down just to get used to the contact. nothing special, just simple rubbing to get rid of the sensitivity.

eye reflexes? hah! i can swat the flies in my garage in one shot

 

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Pyrael

hmm...ill keep that in mind. but wouldnt your friend get the same consequence even if he didnt have callouses?

maybe not. regular skin is much more elastic than a callus, so it might not have torn.