Butterfly Sword, what is good steel for the blade?

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Flying Crane

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A couple of students and I have these exact pair you're asking about. They also came from WLE. They are great swords for demos and training. They are not sharp, and pretty sturdy. We use them for training against rattan, bamboo, and hardwood weapons. They can take a good bit of punishment. The tangs are very sturdy also. From experience, I can say you can't go wrong with purchasing a pair, as long as you use them for training, demos, and even decoration.

Could you tell me a bit about the shape of the blade? A lot of the cheaper ones have blades that look like they were simply cut out of sheet metal. Do these look like that?

Do they have a thicker spine that tapers down to the edge?
 
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Nice. What is the shape of the blade? Does it have a thicker spine that tapers down to the edge, or is it flat like sheetmetal?
 
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www.kriscutlery.com ... they are one of the few "butterfly sword" purveyors. I'd send you the direct link but the firewall/Net Nannie frowns on "weapons". Wing Lam's custom ones are really nice & also are "butterfly sword" design. They're more expensive by about double than the Kris Cutlery ones & I can't justify the price difference.

I've got a nice heavy set of "melon chopper" bladed ones (most commonly found) I got from Bak Li Tat or Bok Li Po... I forget which. Great for training & I don't worry about the blades because they look like a stainless or plated at least.

I'll look at home for more info & get back to you.

these Kris Cutlery knives are also very nice. 5160 steel is excellent blade steel, it's the same stuff used on flat springs for truck suspensions. Very tough, very durable, carries a good edge. Very real.
 

clfsean

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Nice. What is the shape of the blade? Does it have a thicker spine that tapers down to the edge, or is it flat like sheetmetal?

Nah... the spine is uniform from tip to hook... maybe 1/8 an inch? It's about as wide as this letter - r - on the spine.

Those from the Filipino site are spot on!!!! THOSE are Cantonese Dip Do.
 

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these Kris Cutlery knives are also very nice. 5160 steel is excellent blade steel, it's the same stuff used on flat springs for truck suspensions. Very tough, very durable, carries a good edge. Very real.

Truck springs... good stuff. I've got a kukri from Nepal that was hammered out of one of those. Heavy as all get out & one solid piece of steel from tip to tip. The wood on the handle is two pieces fit on the blade.
 

David43515

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5160 isn`t stainless, but it does make a good knife. Like they said it`s a spring steel so it has good shock absorbing ability, but it also holds a good edge. I really like the knives from Filipino Weapons, the shape is pretty traditional, they could take a good edge, and the price isn`t obscene. The 18" blade might be a bit long for ME, but that`s a personal choice. I like a long blade, but I`ve heard Wing Chun guys say a shorter blade allows them to do certain moves inside the lead arm with a greater margin of personal safety. It all comes down to what you like.

You might want to consider getting a "real" pair you can cut with and a "fake" pair for forms work. If nothing else that would let you have a pair to do partner work with that wouldn`t need to have the edges blunted. (You may be VERY, VERY good, but I still wouldn`t do a 2-man form with you if you had live blades. I value all my peices and parts.)
 
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Nah... the spine is uniform from tip to hook... maybe 1/8 an inch? It's about as wide as this letter - r - on the spine.

Those from the Filipino site are spot on!!!! THOSE are Cantonese Dip Do.

I was thinking more of a taper in the other direction. Instead of guard to tip, I was thinking spine to cutting edge.
 
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5160 isn`t stainless, but it does make a good knife. Like they said it`s a spring steel so it has good shock absorbing ability, but it also holds a good edge. I really like the knives from Filipino Weapons, the shape is pretty traditional, they could take a good edge, and the price isn`t obscene. The 18" blade might be a bit long for ME, but that`s a personal choice. I like a long blade, but I`ve heard Wing Chun guys say a shorter blade allows them to do certain moves inside the lead arm with a greater margin of personal safety. It all comes down to what you like.


You might want to consider getting a "real" pair you can cut with and a "fake" pair for forms work. If nothing else that would let you have a pair to do partner work with that wouldn`t need to have the edges blunted. (You may be VERY, VERY good, but I still wouldn`t do a 2-man form with you if you had live blades. I value all my peices and parts.)

aye, I was thinking that more than one pair might become necessary.

Gotta have those live blades for the coming Zombie Apocalypse, you know...
 

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aye, I was thinking that more than one pair might become necessary.

Gotta have those live blades for the coming Zombie Apocalypse, you know...


Blades have deep significance in the history and culture of the Philippines, Indonesia, and Malaysia...kind of like firearms do in hours. Many types of blades, many types of uses. For example, you can find some agrarian blades with no hilt; they were made to be swung and not thrusted. Due to the nature of so many different blades, many FMAists such as Bill Bednarick in Michigan make custom trainers on the side, usually from a tracing of a live blade. Some of these guys are very good, and pride themselves on reproducing the balance and heft as accurately as they can.

Where you are quite a good craftsman yourself, it may even be possible you to make a tracing yourself, and work with an FMAist to make a nice aluminium trainer out of the blade set that you decide upon...should that appeal to you. I seem to recall that you built a gorgeous sword of your own sometime back, it may even be possible to get someone to make just the aluminium part for you and leave the handle work to you.

Just throwing ideas out there. :)
 
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Blades have deep significance in the history and culture of the Philippines, Indonesia, and Malaysia...kind of like firearms do in hours. Many types of blades, many types of uses. For example, you can find some agrarian blades with no hilt; they were made to be swung and not thrusted. Due to the nature of so many different blades, many FMAists such as Bill Bednarick in Michigan make custom trainers on the side, usually from a tracing of a live blade. Some of these guys are very good, and pride themselves on reproducing the balance and heft as accurately as they can.

Where you are quite a good craftsman yourself, it may even be possible you to make a tracing yourself, and work with an FMAist to make a nice aluminium trainer out of the blade set that you decide upon...should that appeal to you. I seem to recall that you built a gorgeous sword of your own sometime back, it may even be possible to get someone to make just the aluminium part for you and leave the handle work to you.

Just throwing ideas out there. :)

good thoughts, and thanks for remembering my work. These are thoughts I've had myself, tinkering with just the best way to do things. I've thought about doing my own custom work, but the truth is, it really is A LOT of work to do. If I can find someone who makes good pieces for a reasonable price, I'm happy to part with some hard-earned cash and help keep the economy afloat. And I do understand that high quality commands a higher price, and that is still "reasonable" in my book. You get what you pay for.

I still do some work myself but I just don't have a lot of time for it. I've got some projects for some people that are taking months and months to complete because I just don't have the time to sit down and finish them. I wish I didn't need to sleep, I'd have an extra 6 or 7 hours a day...
 
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Flying Crane

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Fong Ting Lance for Zombies... don't want those bastards that close to me if we're out of ammo for long guns ...

http://www.wle.com/media/W324-T.jpg

Not a bad choice, but I suspect a bit unweildy in tight situations and could be hazardous to your companions in a rag-tag group of survivors. Great for open ground, tho.

For me, I've got a nice wide bladed two-hander I built with a blade by Angus Trim. Butterfly swords could be a good back-up incase something happens to my primary. Along with my tomahawk. I'd say it would be easier to carry smaller weapons as backup, rather than an extra sword, tho it might not be impossible. I'd have to tinker with attaching hilts together, etc.

Words of wisdom from Max Brooks: Blades don't need reloading.
 

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Oh I'd reach for dip do quick just because of ease of use/natural use from CLF... but I don't want the zombie bastards near me though. They squish & squirt & other un-nice things when damaged. I want no zombie goo on me as I chop them down. Dip do are a little lacking on the distancing. Maybe a pair of machetes... but Fong Ting or 3 Point 2 Blade or the like for distance fighting.

And I'm sorry to say... but if the rag-taggers with me can't keep up & pull their load... well... they're always good for decoys if I'm not related to them. :shooter:
 
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Oh I'd reach for dip do quick just because of ease of use/natural use from CLF... but I don't want the zombie bastards near me though. They squish & squirt & other un-nice things when damaged. I want no zombie goo on me as I chop them down. Dip do are a little lacking on the distancing. Maybe a pair of machetes... but Fong Ting or 3 Point 2 Blade or the like for distance fighting.

And I'm sorry to say... but if the rag-taggers with me can't keep up & pull their load... well... they're always good for decoys if I'm not related to them. :shooter:

aye, there are two types of people you want in your group when you are on the run from the Zombie hordes. You want a group of highly skilled ***-kickers, and you want some cannon fodder.
 

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OH DAMN!!!! Those might be the ones!

thank you!

My pleasure. I have 3 of Ron's swords and am also a Kun Tao student of his. If you do decide to order them tell him Marty mentioned the site to you.
You can go to youtube and check out some of his cutting demos.

Good luck with whatever vendor you go with.
Marty
 
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My pleasure. I have 3 of Ron's swords and am also a Kun Tao student of his. If you do decide to order them tell him Marty mentioned the site to you.
You can go to youtube and check out some of his cutting demos.

Good luck with whatever vendor you go with.
Marty

thank you sir, very much appreciated.

I notice he also has a Chinese gim (double edged straight sword) and Chinese Dao (saber). Do you happen to know if all of these pieces are made with the same steel?

I read thru the portion of his website where he discusses what materials are used in smithing the blades, using 5160 steel and whatnot. But the language in that section seems to suggest that this is what is used on the Philipino blades.

Do you happen to know if this is also true inthe Chinese pieces? The butterfly swords only mention "carbon steel", but not specifically what kind.

A bit more info on these particulars would be of interest. And who is it who actually makes these Chinese blades? It looks like the Philipino blades are made by a smith in the Philipines, am I understanding that correctly?

thanks!
 
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