Bunkai? Not familiar w/ the word.

[IcemanSK]

I've seen it mentioned RE: forms. Please define it for me.

Thanks

 

[Makalakumu]

Bunkai means application. It is used to describe what the movements in a form are doing in a practical sense.

 

[stoneheart]

In Okinawan karate-do, two-man sets are frequently used to illustrate the bunkai. As a student you will first study the solo form. Later, you learn that the solo form you just learned is half of a two man fighting form. Practicing the two man sets and other smaller, abbreviated prearranged sparring sequences helps the karateka bridge the gap into jiyu kumite or free fighting.

 

[Makalakumu]

In Okinawan karate-do, two-man sets are frequently used to illustrate the bunkai. As a student you will first study the solo form. Later, you learn that the solo form you just learned is half of a two man fighting form. Practicing the two man sets and other smaller, abbreviated prearranged sparring sequences helps the karateka bridge the gap into jiyu kumite or free fighting.

Could you elaborate one some these two man sets? This is actually starting to sound like my tai chi class...

 

[stoneheart]

I'd be glad to, but I'm afraid I already sputtered out what little Goju I know. I'm only a 8th kyu in this art. Essentially, I learned a short kata created by Master Miyagi called gekisai dai ichi. This kata can be practice in tandem with another student... Thus if my first move in the kata is a rising block, my partner's first move is a high punch. And so on.

I trained in tae kwon do up to 1st gup, and we had those relatively simple one-step sparring techniques which two students perform. The two man sets in Goju are the same idea, but they use the kata as extended pre-arranged kumite. You pick up much of the bunkai this way in Goju-Ryu.

The latest issue of the Journal of Asian Martial Arts has a good article about Meibukan Goju in it. The author explains the partnered kata that Yagi, a student of Miyagi, created. Those Yagi kata are probably the most advanced two man sets any flavor of Goju have.

 

[arnisador]

Bunkai refers to the self-defense applications of the techniques in the kata. In some styles they'll be brought out through two-person kata (as suggested, the JAMA article, which I have before me, gives a good description of this, with pictures). In many styles it's partially taught by the instructor and partially meant for you to figure out on your own.

 

[IcemanSK]

Thanks all. The word being Japanese, I'd never heard it in my dojang. It is a transferable idea, tho. I appreciate it.:asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

Thanks all. The word being Japanese, I'd never heard it in my dojang. It is a transferable idea, tho. I appreciate it.:asian:

The Korean word for bunkai is bunseok...pronounced bunsek.

 

[MSUTKD]

Actually it is "Boon Hae" in Korean. This might help you.

http://www.msu.edu/~taekwon/Chinese.pdf

After read this

http://www.msu.edu/~taekwon/Essential%20Chinese%20Characters%20for%20the%20Martial%20Artist.pdf

It is important to learn the Chinese so that you can understand the concepts.


ron

 

[Miles]

Ron's essay should be required reading for all martial artists.

He's very knowledgeable and a super guy (but watch out for his left leg back kick......

Miles

 

[IcemanSK]

I feel like I missed out on this part in my early TKD training. (That is, explanations of techniques in forms) Of course, at 15, I doubt I'd cared much about those questions.

Now (at 38) I've got a million questions. But most questions are about odd stuff. "Is it a Korean 'thing' to wear stripes on a BB or is it an American thing?" Why Cat stances? Stuff like that.

I've wondered a lot about what is "strict TKD" & what is "this instructor's idea"? I waana know important stuff too. But mostly odd things.

 

[Makalakumu]

Actually it is "Boon Hae" in Korean. This might help you.

http://www.msu.edu/~taekwon/Chinese.pdf

After read this

http://www.msu.edu/~taekwon/Essential%20Chinese%20Characters%20for%20the%20Martial%20Artist.pdf

It is important to learn the Chinese so that you can understand the concepts.


ron

I've heard both ways. I've read that "bunseok" also means analysis. Is this a different type of analysis? Does the word have a different shade of meaning?

 

[MSUTKD]

In Korean, the word for analysis is indeed "bunseok". This is not, however, the word "bunkai", the Japanese pronuciation. The Chinese characters that are used for "bunkai" mean to "disassemble". Take a look at that PDF.

It will not be long before you really start to see some wonderful things; when you learn to translate the words and concepts. Keep up the search and we all get to learn things!

ron

 

[DuneViking]

Thanks all. The word being Japanese, I'd never heard it in my dojang. It is a transferable idea, tho. I appreciate it.:asian:

http://www.itatkd.com/terminology.html#techniques

Sin-Chong (also "Sin-Ch'ong) application

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

I recently re-read this thread and found myself appreciating it even more the second time around.

What got me started was a recent series of sessions where I was teaching several forms, and used lots of examples of self defense technique applications to help my students remember the moves. With weapons, it is usually easier to see the applications, a little harder with empty hands. This is not ALWAYS the case, but it's a pretty good general rule.

The point is, I found myself going over a number of "advanced" work outs with lots masters, and combined with my own "moments of inspiration" where techniques flowed or lines of techniques became forms, etc. And it just made me really appreciate forms all the more. I love them.

It is such a shame that so many of us were taught forms as rout series of movements with little to no explanations. Most times the explanations were very simple if not plain questionable. For me, never again, and NEVER for my students. I don't like to "spoon feed them", but I do like to give them the keys to the infinite concepts involved. It makes the martial arts learning process that much more rewarding. The understanding of the Chinese characters involved is very important and enlightening.

I seriously recommend that we all review our forms and find the value of the lines, angles, conceptual movements, and then just watch the techniques just flow out!

With brotherhood,
Gand Master De Alba

 

[Mark Lynn]

I seriously recommend that we all review our forms and find the value of the lines, angles, conceptual movements, and then just watch the techniques just flow out!

With brotherhood,
Gand Master De Alba

GM De Alba

I totally agree with you here, we should all review our forms and study them.

Iceman SK

I recently picked up a book entitled "Bunkai" by Darrel Graig. I have some others that show different applications of movements found within katas or forms that are also found within TKD forms however this book had a different take on Bunkai. It was a pretty in depth discussion on what the word Bunkai means and how it applies in training and such. It's been a pretty good read so far.

Graig sensei defined it as dissasemble as well (if I remember right), but that it went deeper than just disassembling the kata and practicing the applications of the techniques. I believe he made the arguement that Bunkai applied the translation or the passing down of a kata from teacher to student without any variation, in other words an exact copy of what the founder taught. If there was variation than it was not Bunkai.

So any inovation as to technique that such and such a move might be is another word (I forget which) but it is not Bunkai. This is not saying that variation of the technique is not valid or that it doesn't work, it's just it is not Bunkai. (Please note I'm recalling this from the last time I read part of the book at work a couple of weeks ago, I would reference the exact qoutes/words/source etc. etc. but the book is at work and I am at home.)

Mark

 

[Naha]

When we work on kata, we are often asked for bunkai. We have to think through what we have just done and tell what the techniques were for. What is the "opponent" doing that requires a knifehand followed by a spearhand, or whatever the sequence is. It really helps to bring the kata alive and make them more than a preset, sequence of movements. This link has some good bunkai on the karate side of things. http://www.iainabernethy.com/

 

[exile]

GM De Alba
I recently picked up a book entitled "Bunkai" by Darrel Graig. I have some others that show different applications of movements found within katas or forms that are also found within TKD forms however this book had a different take on Bunkai. It was a pretty in depth discussion on what the word Bunkai means and how it applies in training and such. It's been a pretty good read so far.

Graig sensei defined it as dissasemble as well (if I remember right), but that it went deeper than just disassembling the kata and practicing the applications of the techniques. I believe he made the arguement that Bunkai applied the translation or the passing down of a kata from teacher to student without any variation, in other words an exact copy of what the founder taught. If there was variation than it was not Bunkai.

So any inovation as to technique that such and such a move might be is another word (I forget which) but it is not Bunkai. This is not saying that variation of the technique is not valid or that it doesn't work, it's just it is not Bunkai. (Please note I'm recalling this from the last time I read part of the book at work a couple of weeks ago, I would reference the exact qoutes/words/source etc. etc. but the book is at work and I am at home.)

Mark

Mark---bear in mind that Craig's interpretation of bunkai is apparently considered somewhat idiosyncratic by other karateka who've written about the application of kata patterns. From what I've seen, the best single book on bunkai, the pioneering work which gives an explicit set of rules for decoding kata---compiling sequences of movements into sets of linked fighting moves---is Iain Abernethy's Bunkai-Jutsu: the Practical Applications of Karate Kata. His interpretation principles would basically guide you to compile out a kata sequence like the following:

(1) From ready position, 90 deg. turn to left, left down block, left front stance, retraction chamber of right fist;

(2) Right lunge/middle punch, chamber/retraction of left fist;

(3)180 deg turn to right, right down block, retraction/chamber of left fist;

(4) Left lunge/middle punch, chamber/retraction of right fist.

along the following lines:

(1)' The 90 deg turn is not to be taken literally; the assumption is that the fight starts off face to face. The 90 deg turn means that at the point where you apply the `down block' you've turned 90 deg clockwise from your assailant---to establish an arm lock, by trappint the wrist (in the `chambering right fist') and driving your left forearm againt the assailants's trapped arm (`chambering the down block', as it's coded), above the elbow, to establish an arm lock. Application of pressure at the assailant's wrist and upper arm forces him to bend forward, bringing his head down. The left `down block' is then a strike to the trapped upper arm, or, more severely, a downward fist strike to the assailant's lowered head position, contacting him in the throat and potentially rupturing his larynx.

(2)' The striking fist converts by muchimi into a grab/hold on the assailant's neck, shoulder or clothes, with the right front punch delivered again to the assailant's throat or the side of his head at the temple or behind the jaw.

(3)' The `180 deg turn and right down block' is code for the striking fist in (2)' to again, by muchimi, become a gripping fist seizing the assailant's clothes, hair or ear which, together with the 180 turn, enable a throw, pitching the assailaint forward via the `down block' (bearing in mind that this movement applies to a right fist which is gripping the assailant) allowing

(4)' the final, terminal blow via the lefthand lunge punch to the assailant's neck behind the jaw or temple.

(1)--(4) are the kata moves (they also show up in certain TKD hyungs, e.g. Palgwe 3) and (1)'--(4)' are the corresponding bunkai. In effect, you `read' the kata to obtain the bunkai. A competent execution of this sequence in a confrontation which begins with a grab (or possibly a thrown punch from the assailant that the defender traps) and carries through along the line in (1)'--(4)' will very possibly result in an unconscious assailant by the time (4)' is completed.

Abernethy shows how the principles he gives for compiling kata out into series of bunkai scenarios yield very hard, practical applications at all fighting ranges, and even have ground applicability (with the strategic goal of getting off the ground as soon as possible). Abernethy's general approach is picked up and extended in Kane and Wilder's The Way of Kata, various work by Javier Martinez on Okinawan kata bunkai, a really outstanding book by Rick Clark called 75 Down Blocks, and work by Simon John O'Neil and Stuart Anslow on bunkai (Korean boon hae, or the term preferred by Anslow, hae sul) for TKD poomsae/hyung/tul.

I found the Craig/Anderson book a bit impenetrable---the graphics in particular were not at all helpful---but maybe I should give it another crack. One important point of difference amongst these various authors is the role of `hidden moves': application elements that aren't made explicit in the kata/poomsae, but which you're expected to be able to insert on the basis of common-sense fighting knowledge. Abernethy makes almost no use of such moves in his interpretations; Kane & Wilder make a lot more use of them, and if I recall correctly, so does Craig. I'm not dead keen on appealing to them to make sense of kata if they can possibly be avoided...

 

[Mark Lynn]

exile

Thank you for your response and the detailed example you gave.

I haven't read all of Graig sensei's book, but what I was trying to say in a sense was in response to the question of what is Bunkai, the meaning of the word. I thought Graig sensei had a different take on the meaning of the word since from what I read in the thread everyone seemed to agree that it was the breaking down or applications of the katas (as I had been told and read over the years). However in reading that part of his book, I thought he had a different view and I threw it out there (as best I can remember what it was).

According to his view of the word Bunkai is the passing down the kata exactly as it was passed down from the founder of the system with no variation. Which is different than just the concept of applications of kata.
For example as someone pointed out on some thread here in MT there are 11 variations of the kata Bassai (which I learned as well, so I can garantee at least 12 different versions ). Now all of these would have had applications of the different moves in the kata and they could all be different. But they were changed from how they were originally taught (per the PDF article that was posted) due to the person's experience, their system of fighting etc. etc.

So if Master A. came up with Bassai and he taught it to student B, C, and D, then B and C have a falling out or leave and start their own schools. So they change the kata by adapting slightly different stances or a different block here or strike there then even if they have applications of the kata they are not doing Bunkai (as I understand Graig sensei's view of the word). Now if D were still teaching things the way that Master A taught him with no variation then he would be doing Bunkai.

Now it begs to question if Masters B and C teach students and they become instructors and they teach their students exactly the same way as they were taught from Masters B and C would those students be doing Bunkai? This is why this actually stuck with me, I didn't quite understand this view point.

I had always been taught and read (for that matter) that Bunkai was the breaking down of the katas and the applications of the techniques. This was the first time I had ever heard this view of the word. I am not a Japanese scholar so I have to go by what I read and what I have been taught. And in all honesty I might even have Graig sensei's view misrepresented here, and if so I apologize.

But once again thank you for your excellent post and the sources that you gave. I'll check them out.

Mark

 

[exile]

exile

Thank you for your response and the detailed example you gave.

I haven't read all of Graig sensei's book, but what I was trying to say in a sense was in response to the question of what is Bunkai, the meaning of the word. I thought Graig sensei had a different take on the meaning of the word since from what I read in the thread everyone seemed to agree that it was the breaking down or applications of the katas (as I had been told and read over the years). However in reading that part of his book, I thought he had a different view and I threw it out there (as best I can remember what it was).

According to his view of the word Bunkai is the passing down the kata exactly as it was passed down from the founder of the system with no variation. Which is different than just the concept of applications of kata.
For example as someone pointed out on some thread here in MT there are 11 variations of the kata Bassai (which I learned as well, so I can garantee at least 12 different versions ). Now all of these would have had applications of the different moves in the kata and they could all be different. But they were changed from how they were originally taught (per the PDF article that was posted) due to the person's experience, their system of fighting etc. etc.

So if Master A. came up with Bassai and he taught it to student B, C, and D, then B and C have a falling out or leave and start their own schools. So they change the kata by adapting slightly different stances or a different block here or strike there then even if they have applications of the kata they are not doing Bunkai (as I understand Graig sensei's view of the word). Now if D were still teaching things the way that Master A taught him with no variation then he would be doing Bunkai.

Now it begs to question if Masters B and C teach students and they become instructors and they teach their students exactly the same way as they were taught from Masters B and C would those students be doing Bunkai? This is why this actually stuck with me, I didn't quite understand this view point.

I had always been taught and read (for that matter) that Bunkai was the breaking down of the katas and the applications of the techniques. This was the first time I had ever heard this view of the word. I am not a Japanese scholar so I have to go by what I read and what I have been taught. And in all honesty I might even have Graig sensei's view misrepresented here, and if so I apologize.

But once again thank you for your excellent post and the sources that you gave. I'll check them out.

Mark

Hey Mark---Take a look at the Kane & Wilder book The Way of Kata---their take on bunkai, okuden waza and so on corresponds, if I understand things correctly, to a kind of common language among kareteka about the analysis of kata. Daryl Craig's perspective and use of terminology seems to be kind of idiosyncratic.

In general, when you talk about bunkai among karateka, what people seem to expect is a detailed description of real-time application of the movements displayed, in the form of actual moves which may have little to do with the label conventionally given to those movements (for which we can thank Anko Itosu, in the end). So a `block' can actually be a lock followed by a strike, as per my description, and a punch---think about it: the `punching' fist moves out, the chambering fist pulls back---can be a neck twist/break, if the `punching' fist is actually an ear grip one side and the retraction fist a chin grab on the other side (Iain Abernethy in karate and Simon O'Neil in TKD use this interpretation a lot for bunkai in their analyses). The real applications behind kata are about the ugliest and most unpleasant you can imagine, but they might be lifesavers in a real fight.... anyway, the Kane & Wilder book is very good, but as I say, the Abernethy book is probably the best of the lot. He has some very good, realistic and professional videos on kata and their application as well...

Good luck in your pursuit of these questions!