Break Falls

[Chat Noir]

Hi folks,

I had a class yesterday (Judo) and we covered Tani Otoshi and Tai Otoshi. We practiced zenpo and I'm getting better on right side but still need work on the left. The backward break falls however are still hard to grasp. At one point during the Tani Otoshi, I went down and not in a break fall, I just went down - and this morning I woke and I'm feeling my neck. At what point does it begin to come together? To me every time I do a fall, I hit it hard and always feel it. I'm impressed by those that can do it lightly and take a fall without thinking. Any suggestions?

Laura

P.S. Probably should have posted in the Judo section, sorry but you BJJ guys should be able to help. Thank you.

 

[Thesemindz]

Can you describe the type of breakfall you're having trouble with? I teach and practice breakfalls a lot, and have found them very effective. There is a safe and relatively less painful way to fall, although you are still hitting the ground from a minimum of several feet in the air so it is what it is.

The way we teach breakfalls is to cross the arms across the chest, tuck the chin, and land with your back rolling into the ground as you slap your hands out at a forty five degree downward angle from the shoulder. The idea is to disperse the force across as much surface area as possible.

First we practice just the arm motions. Sit on the floor. Tuck your chin. Cross your arms. Lay back to the ground, keep your neck energized with your chin tucked and slap the ground with both hands with your arms hanging relaxed from the shoulders.

After five repetitions there, move to a squatting position with your knees bent. Roll down on to your back and finish from there. Five repetitions.

Then move to a crouched position. Slowly lower yourself to the ground, roll down on to your back, and finish from there. Five repetitions.

Then move to a standing position. Bend your knees, crouch, then squat, then roll down on to your back and finish from there. Five repetitions.

I don't know if this is the way you've been taught to practice the breakfall. And there are other kinds of falls as well, side falls, forward falls, rolling falls. They are all important. You can't practice falling enough. It's probably the most important martial arts skill. I've fallen hard, many times, on ice and concrete and kitchen floors. I've never once been attacked by a knife wielding mugger in a dark alley on a moonlit night. Of all the karate skills you learn, learning how to move safely to and from the ground is the one you are the most likely to need, especially as you get older.

Falling with another person is a whole other skill you have to practice. I use the same basic progression, from sitting to standing, practicing landing in a controlled fashion every time.

What specifically are you being taught to do? And how much time are you spending practicing it? When I was first learning to fall I wrenched my neck pretty badly trying to do a jumping backwards fall. I couldn't turn my head for about a week. But it healed up. Take it slow, take some ibuprofen for the muscle injury, and keep practicing. It's a difficult skill, but it really does work. I've fallen safely from throws and falls and slips many times. Keep at it. Good luck.


-Rob

 

[Chat Noir]

http://judoinfo.com/new/techniques/throwing-techniques/346-tani-otoshi

This is the move that was done to me. As you can see, you go down like a brick. My sensei says my chin was tucked, so I guess I did one thing correct. However, slapping the mat? It happened so quick I just reacted by "oh....I'm going to be feeling this later." How do you land from a throw like this and teach your body to slap the mat on the way down? I just always seem to go down without doing anything so the blow is absorbed.

BTW, thanks for the detailed instruction. I'm going to try practicing that at home. I live in a condo for the sake of people below me, I can't make a lot of noise. I also hope to pick up Gurrilla Juj-Jitsu by Dave Camarillo at some point which goes into great details of the breakfalls. I love that he has such a strong Judo background too.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Chat Noir,

The way we approach breakfalls is similar, but a little different to Rob's there. The main things to ensure are that the fall is taken on the "softer" parts of the body, so avoid going straight down onto your back (potentially onto the spine or tailbone, both rather painful...). Ideally, you should be taking it slightly on either side of the tailbone (for a rear fall), and more on the side for a sideways one. In terms of the arms hitting the ground, the mechanics are the same as Rob described, but the reason (and therefore the timing) are different. When we look at the "slapping the ground", it's done a fraction of a second before the body hits.

The reason is that most throws are designed to do one of two things: either slam the head into the ground, and cause damage that way (typically though, this is a secondary aim or effect), or to give a large amount of force applied directly to the body, aiming at affecting the diaphragm/lungs etc, basically knocking the wind out of the opponent, allowing you to then follow with a finishing action (this is the primary reason for throws, classically. A throw "winning" a competitive bout is because it occurs before the major damage is done). As a result, slapping the ground is done to dissipate that force, stopping the majority from impacting your body and winding you (or worse). Hitting the ground after your body has impacted has no effect but stinging the inside of your hands, too soon and you risk damaging your wrists, as well as not having much effect on the impact to your body, and hitting at the same time doesn't do much (honestly), as the impact still goes into the body.

In terms of practicing them, there are three things that have helped me in my falling:
- practicing on a mattress for safety and confidence building
- practicing on hard ground (I foolishly picked concrete and bricks.... not recommended, by the way!) which ensured I kept my head off the ground, and didn't impact any bony areas (spine, tailbone, elbows etc), and
- getting thrown. A lot. All the time. I ended up being the main practice dummy for my instructor (who loved throws!), to the point where I simply had to be good at falling, often with no idea of how I was going to be thrown, or how I was going to land. That was a rather large learning curve....

Once you've gotten the hang of doing a proper breakfall (slapping the ground with one or both hands), then you start to move onto falling without them. There are a huge number of variations that I practice, but the key to them is that I practice them. That's really the only way to be able to just fall properly without thinking about it.

Out of interest, though, how long have you been studying Judo? Is this just a case of being new to it?

 

[Chat Noir]

Hi Chris,

That was a great reply and I appreciate your suggestions for practice. In fact, one of the problems I have for the backward ukemi is slapping the mat, after the fact. My sensei says to do this "before your butt hits the ground." I just can't move that fast - it's like asking me to move with the speed of light. I've been doing Judo for close to a year now. I'm currently a yellow belt and we're going over the things that I'll have to know for my next rank; we focus on a lot of basic rolling since I still need a lot of work on those. Not much intimidates me but it's scary to roll! I started Judo late at 42, but I've done Jeet Kune Do and Wing Chun; this is my first grappling art. My neck is a little better today, easier to drink, but rubbing lotion on my neck as ladies do - I feel it all the way down. My behind is sore and usually after every practice too. I just don't hit the mat light - it's like a ton of bricks. Practicing on my bed sounds a lot safer. Thank you for your advice.

Laura

 

[Thesemindz]

Be careful slapping the mat too early. I know you are being encouraged to slap early, and that's fine, but don't make the mistake of slapping too early and trying to "catch" yourself with your arm. The force of the landing can do serious damage to your wrist, elbow, collar bone, and shoulder. Our spindly little arms aren't made to catch the full weight of the human body as it slams in to the ground, but the torso is. The rib cage compresses with force, the spine bends, the organs float in a semi-fluid state. As strange as it seems, we are specifically designed to withstand impact to the torso. So that is what you want taking the brunt of the force when you fall, not your limbs and not your head.

Slapping helps to disperse the force and absorb some of the impact. But if you put a hand down to catch yourself, you can really get hurt. Be careful! Practicing falls is important, but practicing safely is important too.

As for your problems with Tani Otoshi, have a partner get down on the ground with you in the final position of the throw/fall and work backwards from there. First sitting, then "dipping" with your partner holding you close to the ground and then finishing, and work your way up to the standing fall. If you can land safely with a partner when you're already on the ground, then you can move further and further away from it. I like to start as close to the ground as possible and move away from it, not the other way around. Landing with a partner can be dangerous, you want to make sure you're doing it properly.

Good luck.


-Rob

 

[Chat Noir]

Thanks for the help, Rob. I notice when I slap, my hands just turn red and hurt; my sensei tells me "slap the mat harder," but that's actually painful too. Who would have thought that the toughest part of learning a grappling art and trying to fall and roll? Sounds like landing on the torso and knowing when to slap will be half the battle in Judo.

Laura

 

[Thesemindz]

It will sometimes hurt your hand, you may even have some bruising, but you'll be fine. It hurts at first, you get used to it.


-Rob

 

[Chris Parker]

Be careful slapping the mat too early. I know you are being encouraged to slap early, and that's fine, but don't make the mistake of slapping too early and trying to "catch" yourself with your arm. The force of the landing can do serious damage to your wrist, elbow, collar bone, and shoulder.

Completely agreed. A number of years ago I met a young girl and her father (they came in as customers in my old workplace), and I noticed that the young girl had both her forearms and wrists in plaster. Turned out she was skateboarding, and came off, and as she fell forwards, she put both hands out to save herself. She broke both her wrists. It may be pertinent to note that she was only about 12, and would have weighed slightly more than a chihuahua, so it wasn't a case of a lot of body weight needing to be supported either.

Our spindly little arms aren't made to catch the full weight of the human body as it slams in to the ground, but the torso is. The rib cage compresses with force, the spine bends, the organs float in a semi-fluid state. As strange as it seems, we are specifically designed to withstand impact to the torso. So that is what you want taking the brunt of the force when you fall, not your limbs and not your head.

Hmm, don't know that I agree with that.... the ribcage is certainly there to help protect the internal organs, but that's a fair way from saying it's there to withstand the impact of a forceful slam to the ground. The throws are actually designed to damage the torso (fracturing ribs, damaging internal organs etc) in their ideal execution, so I'd really advise not looking at the torso as a way of absorbing the impact. The main idea of hitting the ground with your hands/arms is to minimise that impact to the torso... without it, all the force goes into the body, and at best you get winded, at worst some real internal damage.

Slapping helps to disperse the force and absorb some of the impact. But if you put a hand down to catch yourself, you can really get hurt. Be careful! Practicing falls is important, but practicing safely is important too.

Definately true.

As for your problems with Tani Otoshi, have a partner get down on the ground with you in the final position of the throw/fall and work backwards from there. First sitting, then "dipping" with your partner holding you close to the ground and then finishing, and work your way up to the standing fall. If you can land safely with a partner when you're already on the ground, then you can move further and further away from it. I like to start as close to the ground as possible and move away from it, not the other way around. Landing with a partner can be dangerous, you want to make sure you're doing it properly.

This is a way we approach things as well, both in practicing techniques (when it suits) and for practicing the falls themselves. Essentially, a basic way to teach them is to break them into sections, starting with moving/rolling back, then on your back just doing the hand-work, then putting it all together, typically all of this starting from a kneeling height at most. As experience and confidence is built, the height is increased, and later more advanced versions are added.

Thanks for the help, Rob. I notice when I slap, my hands just turn red and hurt; my sensei tells me "slap the mat harder," but that's actually painful too. Who would have thought that the toughest part of learning a grappling art and trying to fall and roll? Sounds like landing on the torso and knowing when to slap will be half the battle in Judo.

Laura

Hmm, perhaps something in the wording here, but it may help to stop thinking of "slapping" the ground. That seems to imply a flat hand, which will certainly result in a red, sore hand, so perhaps just thinking of hitting, or impacting the ground may be a better approach. When you do that, ensure that your hands are cupped, so the only parts that actually impact the ground are the edges of your hands and finger tips, as well as the "meaty" part of your arm (turn your elbows away from the ground!) Hopefully that'll help.

 

[zDom]

Thousands and thousands of repetitions with good form will make your breakfalling second nature and will strengthen the parts of your body you are transferring the force to.

There are no shortcuts or magic alternatives.

 

[Thesemindz]

Hmm, don't know that I agree with that.... the ribcage is certainly there to help protect the internal organs, but that's a fair way from saying it's there to withstand the impact of a forceful slam to the ground. The throws are actually designed to damage the torso (fracturing ribs, damaging internal organs etc) in their ideal execution, so I'd really advise not looking at the torso as a way of absorbing the impact. The main idea of hitting the ground with your hands/arms is to minimise that impact to the torso... without it, all the force goes into the body, and at best you get winded, at worst some real internal damage.

The point that I was making is that between the two, the torso is better "designed" to withstand large scale traumatic force than the arms are. Sure, if you get hit by a truck you will break. But landing on your torso is still preferable to landing on an extended arm. Which I think we agree on? Just maybe not the specific wording that I used.


-Rob

 

[Grasshopper22]

With time, the more you do it, the more naturally it will come to you.