Bong to Tan vs High / Low Strike

[mook jong man]

Have you ever trained with those people who like to do a quick combo of punches using the same arm.
Usually its a punch to the head and a fraction of a second later its straight downstairs for a punch to the gut or it could be the other way around.

The punches we will be defending against in the drill are your run of the mill slightly circular punch to the head and an uppercut punch to the stomach with the opponent using the one arm.

This drill develops hand speed , sensitivity and reflex.
Speed in getting your arm up to cover the high line and back down to cover the low line or vice versa .
Sensitivity and reflex are developed by feeling and reacting to when the partner changes from high to low.

In this drill we will only use the one arm , the other will be held back in guarding hand.
Get your partner to punch just on one side high up to the head and then low straight down to the gut.

As the punch comes up to your head intercept with a high Bong Sau , as he goes to move down stairs stick to his arm as you rotate and drop your Tan Sau down low to maintain wrist contact , you wiil probably have to drop it down till your arm is parallel with the floor depending on the angle of the punch.

Start off at a nice easy high then low rhythm then once you have the basic movement down and you are staying in contact and sticking nicely to his arm have your partner at random do a few fast ones.
Once you can cope with that then get him to start altering the angles a bit by going from slightly circular to a more tighter attacking style at random.

Make sure you keep forward force on and focused to centreline.
Maintain angle in your arm.
Stay relaxed and stick to his arm as you rotate from Bong and drop the Tan and then back up again with the Bong sau.

 

[zepedawingchun]

The punches we will be defending against in the drill are your run of the mill slightly circular punch to the head and an uppercut punch to the stomach with the opponent using the one arm. . . . . . In this drill we will only use the one arm , the other will be held back in guarding hand. Get your partner to punch just on one side high up to the head and then low straight down to the gut.

As the punch comes up to your head intercept with a high Bong Sau , as he goes to move down stairs stick to his arm as you rotate and drop your Tan Sau down low to maintain wrist contact , you wiil probably have to drop it down till your arm is parallel with the floor depending on the angle of the punch.

For any slightly circular punches or circular stikes toward the head, we use biu sau (with a shift) and not bong sau. Our idea is bong sau is used for punches coming straight into the centerline to the head.

Also, any low level circular punches below the diaphram (or below the immovable elbow height) are dealt with using a gan sau. From the diaphram up to the collarbone, tan sau or crossing tan sau handles those.

 

[Si-Je]

I think he means do a straight jab like punch to the head. Like some do a "feint" to the stomach to quickly come back up to hit the head. or vice versa.
If someone threw a circular punch at Mook Man he'd probably dai sau and then if the force became too great flow from dai sau to bong sau.

Cool drill. But I wonder, why don't you just stay in tan sau and just move the arm up and down with the partner? Or do a tan sau and chit sau like in the form? I've never done tan sau so low before, I will definately have to play with that.

 

[mook jong man]

I think he means do a straight jab like punch to the head. Like some do a "feint" to the stomach to quickly come back up to hit the head. or vice versa.

No I don't mean a jab that is coming down the centre line , I'd use a tan sau for that.
I'm talking just a generic punch to the side of the head , that is off the centreline thrown from the hip , but not a wild hay maker.

If someone threw a circular punch at Mook Man he'd probably dai sau and then if the force became too great flow from dai sau to bong sau.

Or he might just burst into tears and cry like a big girly man lol.
No your right I would go into Bong Sau from Dai Sau , but that would mean that the strike would be coming in extremely circular so now the force of his strike would be coming from the side.

Depending on your skill the revolving force of the Bong Sau can still absorb quite a lot of that sideways force

Cool drill. But I wonder, why don't you just stay in tan sau and just move the arm up and down with the partner? Or do a tan sau and chit sau like in the form? I've never done tan sau so low before, I will definately have to play with that.

The drill is teaching you to use the rotational force of the Bong Sau and Tan sau to absorb a great deal of force .
Being able to control and stick so that the opponent cannot gain any momentum in his attacks.
I will try and explain it this way , imagine there is a big inflatable leather ball hanging in mid air in front of you.
The ball is inflated but not so much that its surface doesn't give to the touch .

Now the ball starts rotating very rapidly in a anti clockwise direction , if you were to try and strike that ball with your right arm in the upper portion of that ball you would find that your force would be absorbed and your hand redirected in a anti clockwise direction.
This is like the Bong Sau revolving.

Similarly if I were to strike the lower portion of the ball the same thing would happen except the ball would now have to be spinning in clockwise direction.
This is like the Bong Sau rotating down into Tan Sau.

I've never done tan sau so low before, I will definately have to play with that.

This is done to maintain wrist contact , its definitely not a low level technique by any means but it can redirect a lot of force when done properly.

Just rotate your arm from Bong and drop the Tan straight down on his wrist in a circular fashion. You will find the hard part is to keep forward force on with your Tan Sau low.

I prefer to use both arms in simultaneous counter attack , but this is really teaching you a principle about revolving force of Bong and Tan and controlling someone.

Not only that there are times when your other hand might be trapped or otherwise engaged and being able to defend and strike through with the one hand is your only option.

Once you have redirected the force with your Tan or Bong it is quite a simple matter to just continue and strike through from those control positions.

 

[Si-Je]

your funny, lol!

So, you mean like a "corkscrew" punch to the head. not quite a "haymaker" but a say..,, typical TKD punch? I could see that. But, I've sparred against it and usually (their bigger than me, and I end up using dai sau or tan sau, depending on the angle.) I NEVER use bong sau. Unless I'm "forced" into it. and I never use it right off the bat when someone punches.

But, I think I see what your drill is developing. At first it made me think of SLT where your do tan sau, chit sau, and tan sau again. But, with a bong?! When would you effetively use bong sau off a stright line punch? I always experienced that if the opponent just slightly pivoted or turned their forearm they could cut across your bong sau. (that's why I secretly hate bong sau. can't depend on it. you just have to use it as an, "oh,.. ****!" move and be turned into it). I'd never just flop bong sau out there to defend against a straight punch, unless,... "oh ****!" I'm about to get hit. lol!

teacher taught me this way... you grab me in a cross wrist grab. I flow to tan sau then to dai sau to bong sau to make you leg go. All in one "floppy" fluid movement. (so effortlessly)
It works, everytime. no matter how much bigger they are or how strong. It's freaky.

But, I never did it off that kind of punch combo. Someone does that to me, I usually take the WT way and just Kick (I favor heel kick in the chest or groin while ...) chainpunching them alot. lol! Their sooo brutal, but it works. They just "blast" you with chainpunching until you just overcome the opponent. Which usually works. Aggression, but relaxed aggression. WT. (beginning stuff, anyways. but in WT/WC you always go back to the beginning.)

That's why I wanted to learn more Fung stuff. It's just more towards my "insight" on life and fighting and stuff.

"Gentle, but not yeilding
Firm, but not Soft."
That's the GM Fung Style. As far as I can tell. excellent! Want to learn more of that, please! (and of course, I do love the WT of Emin very much too. I think that with the both you kinda have a bit of "Prodigal Son". happening.)
Great movie...

Both sides of Wing Chun (however you want to spell it for whatever reason...) It's all wing chun. Just stuff that teachers took techniques that worked best for them and "made them masters" so they could teach the best. But the best masters can teach both ways.
But, that doesn't mean that a master that teaches only one way the best is no good because he doesn't teach the other way.
short and tall,

that's all it comes down to in WC/WT in the difference in techniques and drills. And even then, not much difference.

Anyway, would have loved to learn from a shorter master like Fung. Or Emin, But, I've had too many of his "shorter" students that came to learn from us that found out the hard way that the "blitz method" doesn't always work. And doing tan sau on a "ghetto hook" punch doesn't work AT all for a severly smaller person defending against a really big guy.
(Dai Sau rulez! lol!)

I dont' want to start crap. I'm just saying that WC/WT is totally different for your size. In that, your using different WC/WT technique in that situation. And not one "style" of WC/WT is for everyone. I'm finding that there are alot more styles and I want to learn more.
lol! When I first started I thought there was only Fung, Emin, LT, hell even just Yip Man style WC. There is so much more out there it's so awesome!
(I want to learn the WC styles that didn't come from Yip Man. he, he! cool. So tired of that. Two Chicks MAKE the art, and all we talk about is Yip Man? I want the older stuff. please.)

wow,. I went way off. lol! Maybe I should delete this stuff....
nah, screw it.

 

[mook jong man]

your funny, lol!

So, you mean like a "corkscrew" punch to the head. not quite a "haymaker" but a say..,, typical TKD punch? I could see that. But, I've sparred against it and usually (their bigger than me, and I end up using dai sau or tan sau, depending on the angle.) I NEVER use bong sau. Unless I'm "forced" into it. and I never use it right off the bat when someone punches.

But, I think I see what your drill is developing. At first it made me think of SLT where your do tan sau, chit sau, and tan sau again. But, with a bong?! When would you effetively use bong sau off a stright line punch? I always experienced that if the opponent just slightly pivoted or turned their forearm they could cut across your bong sau. (that's why I secretly hate bong sau. can't depend on it. you just have to use it as an, "oh,.. ****!" move and be turned into it). I'd never just flop bong sau out there
to defend against a straight punch, unless,... "oh ****!" I'm about to get hit. lol!

teacher taught me this way... you grab me in a cross wrist grab. I flow to tan sau then to dai sau to bong sau to make you leg go. All in one "floppy" fluid movement. (so effortlessly)
It works, everytime. no matter how much bigger they are or how strong. It's freaky.

But, I never did it off that kind of punch combo. Someone does that to me, I usually take the WT way and just Kick (I favor heel kick in the chest or groin while ...) chainpunching them alot. lol! Their sooo brutal, but it works. They just "blast" you with chainpunching until you just overcome the opponent. Which usually works. Aggression, but relaxed aggression. WT. (beginning stuff, anyways. but in WT/WC you always go back to the beginning.)

That's why I wanted to learn more Fung stuff. It's just more towards my "insight" on life and fighting and stuff.

"Gentle, but not yeilding
Firm, but not Soft."
That's the GM Fung Style. As far as I can tell. excellent! Want to learn more of that, please! (and of course, I do love the WT of Emin very much too. I think that with the both you kinda have a bit of "Prodigal Son". happening.)
Great movie...

Both sides of Wing Chun (however you want to spell it for whatever reason...) It's all wing chun. Just stuff that teachers took techniques that worked best for them and "made them masters" so they could teach the best. But the best masters can teach both ways.
But, that doesn't mean that a master that teaches only one way the best is no good because he doesn't teach the other way.
short and tall,

that's all it comes down to in WC/WT in the difference in techniques and drills. And even then, not much difference.

Anyway, would have loved to learn from a shorter master like Fung. Or Emin, But, I've had too many of his "shorter" students that came to learn from us that found out the hard way that the "blitz method" doesn't always work. And doing tan sau on a "ghetto hook" punch doesn't work AT all for a severly smaller person defending against a really big guy.
(Dai Sau rulez! lol!)

I dont' want to start crap. I'm just saying that WC/WT is totally different for your size. In that, your using different WC/WT technique in that situation. And not one "style" of WC/WT is for everyone. I'm finding that there are alot more styles and I want to learn more.
lol! When I first started I thought there was only Fung, Emin, LT, hell even just Yip Man style WC. There is so much more out there it's so awesome!
(I want to learn the WC styles that didn't come from Yip Man. he, he! cool. So tired of that. Two Chicks MAKE the art, and all we talk about is Yip Man? I want the older stuff. please.)

wow,. I went way off. lol! Maybe I should delete this stuff....
nah, screw it.

With out getting into semantics about the punch , say I'm standing in front of you and from my hands hanging down by my side and I slap you in the face with out taking a very wide trajectory, pretty much just from where my hands are to your face.

When would you effetively use bong sau off a stright line punch? I always experienced that if the opponent just slightly pivoted or turned their forearm they could cut across your bong sau. (that's why I secretly hate bong sau. can't depend on it. you just have to use it as an, "oh,.. ****!" move and be turned into it)..

Every time you do sticking hands you are using the revolving force of the Bong Sau to dissolve the force of the opponents Fook Sau.
You can think of the Fook Sau as a potential straight punch to your face.
But we are getting off track , in the case of a straight punch down the centreline you are more likely to use a Tan Sau in a counter -pierce movement or use a counter punch.
This drill is not for a straight punch down the centreline .
Don't discount the Bong Sau it can be used to dissolve force but it can also be used in a very attacking and invasive way and to unbalance the opponent.

Think of this scenario you only have one arm to use , your other arm is holding a bag or your childs hand , whatever.

I'm standing in front of you and throw a slightly circular strike at your face that is off the centreline.
Luckily the strike just happens to be on the same side as your free arm.
I'm close and you haven't had time to launch a kick to keep me out of range .

You can use the Bong Sau to dissolve the force of that strike , defend , control , and convert your Bong Sau into a hook punch or a palm strike .
That is using one arm to deflect and strike in one motion , that is economy of movement and directness.