Blending of systems

[arnisandyz]

As many of you know I recently tested for my instructor certification for Modern Arnis under Datu Inocalla. Since it was a Modern Arnis test, all during the testing I was fighting myself, trying to make it "pure Modern Arnis" (if there is such a thing). I have had the luck of being exposed to several different systems of FMA and have in some way been infleunced by other people whether it be by choice or conditioning (conditioned response). It makes it difficult during the flow to "turn-on" Modern Arnis and "turn off" others. Where does one end and where doe the other begin? When I feel comfortable and at my best, it just comes out whenever...whatever it is. This was the hardest part of my testing, I felt like I was hindering my flow by forcing Modern Arnis and holding back the others.

Just wondering if anyone else ever felt like this. Thanks in advance

Andy

 

[moromoro]

hi andy

i can see how it would hurt you a little during testing, but the FMA systems are all fairly similar in their essense and i would say learning several is good as long as you strive for mastery in each,

it is not uncommon to have heard of stories of how many of the old masters would train in several systems... some systems have certain areas which are a little sharper than others....

also what systems have you learnt??

Thanks

Terry

 

[arnisandyz]

Hi Terry,

Yes, I definatly do not want to be jack of all trades and master of none, therefore I think you should study a system before taking from it...but I don't think it is completely necessary to Master a system to gain from it.

Besides Modern Arnis I study Ray Dionaldo Filipino Combat Systems which has a background of primarily Pikiti tirsia, Sayoc Kali and Modern Arnis.

The overlapping of various FMA systems is exactly what I am talking about. When does one end and one begin? In fighting or natural interpretation, this is a good trait to have...but when your trying to represent just one system it is hard not to have other things come out from other systems. This is why I don't feel comfortable doing just a Modern Arnis school or just a FCS school. Its not that I don't know the material, but through the years its been so mixed in with others that it is now hard to seperate.

An example of what I am talking about during testing...Modern Arnis siniwali Boxing drills. I was taught this some time ago when I was doing just Modern Arnis...a couple times during some drills I took it to hubad from Sayoc kali (and many others) without thinking about it. Although the motions may exi t that is similar in Modern Arnis, I know that i got it from Ray or training with my friend Aldon with the knife.

Andy

 

[Rommel]

If it's natural and it works why worry? Our brain and reflexes can figure out in an instant the best response. This is what I found liberating when I also trained in Russian Systema. I recommend video taping yourself frequently. If you are training in one particular style, then videotape yourself doing the techniques for that particular style so you never forget it and can go back for reference. Do this especially after each seminar if they don't allow you to videotape the seminar. Don't worry about mastering any system because it is really hard to define mastery. Many of the top escrimadors also trained in various styles and I read from a Chinese kung fu expert the same can be said of the Chinese. Even the top Russian martial artists also studied many styles and under many different teachers.

 

[thekuntawman]

i think it is a waste of time to study different arts if you do not naturally "blend" them together. some people study just enough to say, here is a technique from this style, and here is one from that style. they have only collected techniques. but when you study arts and abosrbed them, you got the benefit from it when you can fight and use parts of all of them.

for example, i know tae kwon do, kung fu and ju jitsu also. when i am fighting, everything i know is used, even when i am not thinking about it. but when i teach a class, if i want to i can teach my students and say, here is a tae kwon do strategy, or teach them to fight on the mat.

if you are not able to separate them when you fight, that is a good thing, becuase you are not suppose to separate them. but when you teach it will come natural to you to know what is what.

 

[arnisandyz]

I agree with both of you Rommel and Kuntawman. I don't really have a concern as to the mixing of styles, but was more interested in who else has gone through this. Absolutely no offense to Modern Arnis or any other system, but I felt as though I was square peg being hammered into a round hole. I think when you start to find "your own" martial art it becomes very easy to see what might compliment or fill in holes from other systems. One of things that I try to do is to help the students find "there own" art depending on past experiences, body size, personal preference, etc. I try to have enough knnowledge about different fighting stratagies to help them find there own way so they won't need to take lessons from me anymore. So far no one has moved on, but I don't plan on having the same students for a long time.

Someone also told me that this is the way it used to be done. You would train under a teacher and when you are ready for more than that teacher can offer, you seek out another teacher, and so on. The art is more about the individual and less about the system. Most of the Eskrimadors of the old days were there own master. Very rarely would one stay a student under somebody for a very long period of time, unless it is family related. So Im told.

Probably my biggest growth has come by "playing" with my good friend Aldon. We were working on what we wanted to without the restriction of any one style and the options of many styles. We both had enough experience to "figure things out". And we came to the conclusion that it is so much easier to retain something when you solve problems on your own rather than having everything fed to you because you learn why it works or doesn't work instead of being told why it does or doesn't.

Andy

 

[AldonAsher]

I couldn't agree with you more, Andy. I also think the reason why you are have trouble staying in one system is that we use many of the drills interchangeably. For example, when we are doing hubad, tapi tapi and palusut almost always come out in the flow.

The bottom line is, we focussed our training together towards principles and concepts, and not on specific techniques. Every style has it's own specific techniques and structure. But principles and concepts encompass individual styles.

 

[Mark Lynn]

In regards to fighting I believe whats works for the situation is what is important. However if testing in a system than I would think you need to try and stay within the system, or if you are teaching/representing a system than try and stay within the system.

For instance the first Modern Arnis camp I went to my partner was a high ranking Kung Fu (Mantis system I think?) instructor, and when we learned the anyos (forms) he looked like a person performing a Preying Mantis form. He inserted nerve strikes instead of punches etc. etc. Now it looked good, he could make an application of the technique but was it Modern Arnis? Not really.

Another time while practicing Kombatan's Free flow drill under GM Ernesto's watchfull eye I kept flowing into some resposnes that I had learned in GM Remy's right on right Tapi series. While it was natural for me and it felt better for me to do this, I was told that in so many words "Yes you can do that technique but the drill has this techinque and to do that." My partner knew how to respond to the proper technique being fed in the drill and I was throwing him off by inserting something else.

Does this mean that I won't play with the drill on my own time and insert GM Remy's stuff to gain a better understanding of their systems. Of course I will, however in teaching the drill I would stick to his method and not my own.

Mark

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by The Boar Man
However if testing in a system than I would think you need to try and stay within the system, or if you are teaching/representing a system than try and stay within the system.

Mark [/B]

Mark, I totally agree, thats why I started this thread. I did exactly as you said and concentrated on representing Modern Arnis during my testing. I'm just saying its not as natural representing someone else's system as it is representing yourself as a martial artist. From an Artistic perspective, if someone teaches you to paint, you could spend you life teaching and representing (copying) your teachers style, when you start to develop your own style (better or worse) is when you start representing yourself. The foundation is still there that you started with, the basics of mixing paint , composition, etc, but now you've taken it and made something new. I also compare it to coaching in professional sports. After the basics of playing the game is learned, the better coaches will groom the athlete to utilize thier personal strengths and attributes rather than train each one the exact same way in one mold.

Thaks

Andy