Black Belt/Black eye.

[darkintruder]

If your Martial arts instructor can`t handle a beginer in sparing dose that make him a bad teacher or a good teacher and a bad fighter. im asking because this has happaned to me. I use to be in Kenpo but i moved away and was trying out a few MA schools and i was told about a school so i went for the free demo lesson and when i came time to spar i keep landing a lot of fast shots with knife hand chops and reverse punches. and he keep calling time out and spouting the rules and getting mad. in short he ended up with a black eye and told me to find a new school. so now im back in Kenpo but i still wounder if he was holding back or if he realy was that bad. -IAM DARKINTRUDER :jedi1:

 

[Marginal]

I dunno. I think the fact he kept having to repeat the sparring rules to you says a lot...

 

[darkintruder]

I dunno. I think the fact he kept having to repeat the sparring rules to you says a lot...

He still sucked thats why on the weekends i spar with my friends with few rules.
ever try sparing with lesser rules you can learn a lot more about what you can do. -IAM DARKINTRUDER
:jedi1:

 

[8253]

If your Martial arts instructor can`t handle a beginer in sparing dose that make him a bad teacher or a good teacher and a bad fighter. im asking because this has happaned to me. I use to be in Kenpo but i moved away and was trying out a few MA schools and i was told about a school so i went for the free demo lesson and when i came time to spar i keep landing a lot of fast shots with knife hand chops and reverse punches. and he keep calling time out and spouting the rules and getting mad. in short he ended up with a black eye and told me to find a new school. so now im back in Kenpo but i still wounder if he was holding back or if he realy was that bad. -IAM DARKINTRUDER :jedi1:

As far as rules go, as long as there not crippled, dead or blind at the end it dosent matter that much. As far as an instructor or a black belt goes, i have heard somewhere that in order for a black belt to be tested on thier skill, they should spar with the lowest ranking person in the class because most bb's or instructors can read other bbs, but they never know what to expect from a person with very little to no experience.

 

[Touch Of Death]

If your Martial arts instructor can`t handle a beginer in sparing dose that make him a bad teacher or a good teacher and a bad fighter. im asking because this has happaned to me. I use to be in Kenpo but i moved away and was trying out a few MA schools and i was told about a school so i went for the free demo lesson and when i came time to spar i keep landing a lot of fast shots with knife hand chops and reverse punches. and he keep calling time out and spouting the rules and getting mad. in short he ended up with a black eye and told me to find a new school. so now im back in Kenpo but i still wounder if he was holding back or if he realy was that bad. -IAM DARKINTRUDER :jedi1:

I know martial arts instructors that are "newly" handicaped and I know one that is about 100lbs holding a brick. They both have much to offer but are not exactly ready to trade punches with a big guy. If you feel you need to be physicaly dominated by a person before you can learn from them, you were in the wrong place. I cannot comment on what he had to offer and, I suppose, you can't either. I took a tae Kwon do class in Everette WA, and was told I was no longer allowed to block his students' moves. I left because he threatened to beat me up if I didn't stop. Being a Kenpoist, my whole game plan was to undermine their method of fighting by attacking the legs, his students were nice enough to present to me, with elbows and knee strikes. Long story short, the system had to change or I had to go. I can't fault that instructor or yours. I didn't want to learn Tae Kwon Do, I wanted to practice against Tae Kwon Do. Why were you there? :asian:
Sean

 

[Tony]

I know martial arts instructors that are "newly" handicaped and I know one that is about 100lbs holding a brick. They both have much to offer but are not exactly ready to trade punches with a big guy. If you feel you need to be physicaly dominated by a person before you can learn from them, you were in the wrong place. I cannot comment on what he had to offer and, I suppose, you can't either. I took a tae Kwon do class in Everette WA, and was told I was no longer allowed to block his students' moves. I left because he threatened to beat me up if I didn't stop. Being a Kenpoist, my whole game plan was to undermine their method of fighting by attacking the legs, his students were nice enough to present to me, with elbows and knee strikes. Long story short, the system had to change or I had to go. I can't fault that instructor or yours. I didn't want to learn Tae Kwon Do, I wanted to practice against Tae Kwon Do. Why were you there? :asian:
Sean

This is something I have never heard of , an instructor not allowing to block other students techniques! Thats absurd! Maybe its just as well you left! Its doesn't sound like the kind of school I would want to train in. But if ever I wanted to try a new style i would respect the instructor and the rules and if I wasn't happy I would just leave.

 

[KenpoTex]

Just to throw my 2 cents in...

when i came time to spar i keep landing a lot of fast shots with knife hand chops and reverse punches. and he keep calling time out and spouting the rules and getting mad. in short he ended up with a black eye and told me to find a new school.

You didn't provide us with any information regarding the "rules" you were supposedly violating, however in my studio there is a difference between sparring (point-fighting) in which certain strikes are not allowed i.e. strikes to the joints, or face, and spontaneous fighting which incorporates the basics you would use on the street-elbows, eye-pokes, knee-strikes, joint attacks etc. If this was the case there I don't blame him for getting mad, especially if he told you the rules. Also, the fact that you gave him a black-eye makes me wonder about your level of control.
Each school is different and they each have their own unique rules and ways of doing things, I think anyone who goes into a new school, whether they're a beginer or an expert should be respectful of the instructors and their way of running their school.

Anyway I've rambled on long enough...

 

[michaeledward]

If your Martial arts instructor can`t handle a beginer in sparing dose that make him a bad teacher or a good teacher and a bad fighter. im asking because this has happaned to me. I use to be in Kenpo but i moved away and was trying out a few MA schools and i was told about a school so i went for the free demo lesson and when i came time to spar i keep landing a lot of fast shots with knife hand chops and reverse punches. and he keep calling time out and spouting the rules and getting mad. in short he ended up with a black eye and told me to find a new school. so now im back in Kenpo but i still wounder if he was holding back or if he realy was that bad.

I admire this instructors self control.

Working from the assumption that the teacher you refer to is a black-belt instructor, and that you really are a 'beginer', I would posit that you should be thankful that he did not kick-your-a$$, and break a few bones while at it.

If he is an instructor, perhaps an owner, he must always be on guard for some punk trying to set him up for a lawsuit. You clearly explain that you were unable to follow the instructors rules. I think he executed excellent self-control, to continue to work with you within the rules of his studio, until he saw that you had no interest in participating in a like manner. This instructor has a business interest to protect. If he 'fought back', in kind (eg disregarding the rules), because of his higher experience, it is possible that he could damage you quite badly, which could then lead to litigation.

Sparing in a school is not the same as some knuckle-heads clowning around on the weekends, his lively hood is in the balance.

If I owned or operated a martial arts school, you would not be welcomed.

Mike

 

[Damian Mavis]

Darkintruder, I woulda laid you out and the litigation possibilities be damned. Hope you walk into someones school who thinks like me soon!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[7starmantis]

In my opinion if he is the head instructor he should be good enough at his rules to work against a true beginner. If a true beginner came in and had their way with him, his title of instructor should be in question. If he is an assistant instructor or a student instructor, its a little more understandable (not much though) but as the head instructor, I think its sad, and you should find a real instrucotr to train under and take his students with you, they might learn something as well.

7sm

 

[Makalakumu]

In my opinion if he is the head instructor he should be good enough at his rules to work against a true beginner. If a true beginner came in and had their way with him, his title of instructor should be in question. If he is an assistant instructor or a student instructor, its a little more understandable (not much though) but as the head instructor, I think its sad, and you should find a real instrucotr to train under and take his students with you, they might learn something as well.

7sm

Interesting. It seems as if different styles have different approaches to this situation.

Personally, I would never spar a beginning student because I know nothing about that student. There needs to be a level of trust when you are sparring or it will get dangerous very quickly. The rules are meant to protect both players from serious injury, if you can't follow them, then you should go back to your weekend fight club because MA is more then fighting.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hmmm seems like a bad situation to me.

What was the intent of the sparring to make contact or to gain technical control or timing? (* I do not know the rules *)

What was the instructor told to do with new people? Not hurt them? For if everyone who walks in gets a black eye form the instructor then not many will stay.

As a colored belt of Modern Arnis, I was invited to workout in an open workout menaing anyone from other clubs could come. One of my instructors was a friend of the senior master there, and he was off talking and working with him. I lined up with my rank, meaning how many belts I had. The black belts told me to line up according to color, which put me ranks above where I was in my own art. When it came time for forms (* It was a TKD class *), I knew nothing and ended up with the white belts to learn the beginning forms. When it came time for the one and three steps I was put with the other Blue belts and then worked my way up through the ranks to the black belts. A simple 45 degree step confused most if not all of the colored belts. The blue and red belts were upset that I was showing them up. Not my intention, yet it was their belief. They kept hitting harder. So, I did as well. They continued to come at me to hurt me, so I threw one. Oppps gym floors and not knowing how to break fall. I was moved up into the ranks again. Soon the Black belts are sparring me, and giving me there best. I am also giving my best, and we are hurting each other. A senior BB moves me up again. Soon I am with this older second Dan BB and he askes me not to hurt him. I sparred him with real light contact, and no contact to the head as he requested. He asked if Blue was Black in the system I was studying? I told him no. I then sparred with a 3rd Dan and the 4th Dan. They both took it easy on me. Yes, they could have hit me at will. And when I did score they would take it up to the next level of timing and execution and keep me working.

So, maybe just maybe Black Belt is not everything there is to it.

Also the instructor could have had a bad night.

It could also mean that he is very technically sound only not capable of executing to your natural timing. Or he mis-read your intentions and did not want to hurt you? I do not know as I was not there.

Yet, just because you get hit a black belt does not mean you are bad. The other person may only have street skills and no rank. So what. Black Belt does not mean perfect and untouchable. It does not make you a god or super human.

Just my thoughts

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

i remember this one time years ago when some thugs from the street walked in my dojo. After watching us for a bit. The instructor teaching that class let one of the thugs with a mouth spar against one of our black belts.
Our black belts kicked him all over the place. The guy kept stopping after every blow and saying wait you can do that or hey thats not fair.

As for your situation I dont know enough about the man you had to deal with to make a correct comment. Some people might be great fighters and so so teachers where others are bad fighters but can teach you what you need to know. Then we have people who are great fighters and great teachers and others who have a nice rank but nothing else past that.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

In my opinion if he is the head instructor he should be good enough at his rules to work against a true beginner. If a true beginner came in and had their way with him, his title of instructor should be in question. If he is an assistant instructor or a student instructor, its a little more understandable (not much though) but as the head instructor, I think its sad, and you should find a real instrucotr to train under and take his students with you, they might learn something as well.

7sm

7*,

I have to disagree. You do qualify with True beginner. What is a true beginner. Does bouncing and street figthing count? For if not, then a person could come into anyones' club and get in a shot or two on just about anyone on any given day.

What qualifies as a head instructor? Years of training ? or Rank?

Just because a person opens a club with a black belt they are not untouchable.

:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

This is something I have never heard of , an instructor not allowing to block other students techniques! Thats absurd! Maybe its just as well you left! Its doesn't sound like the kind of school I would want to train in. But if ever I wanted to try a new style i would respect the instructor and the rules and if I wasn't happy I would just leave.

I was convincing Tae Kwon Do students that kicking was a bad idea. I had to go. I have to give the instructor credit. He was switching to Kung Fu and was teaching "secret" forms that most people didn't "deserve" to see. I was your proverbial turd in the punch bowl. He was extreem hard style switching to extreem soft style, and I just wanted EPAK.
Sean

 

[mliddy]

I admire this instructors self control.

Great point. There is a diiference between needing to prove yourself as a better fighter by ignoring all the rules and remaining in control of the situation.

I am interested in peoples thoughts on this from a slightly different point of view.

Do you have to be a great fighter to be a great teacher?

My old instuctor once told me he no longer entered competitions, because if he didn't win, students may think less of him (at this time he was 41 and the fittest, hardest person I have ever trained with). He felt that students want to train with winners. This is probably true, look at the popularity of BJJ as a result of the Gracie domination of competition.

Not meaning to be disrespectful to the Gracies, as due to the records of their students they are obviously excellent instructors as well, but following this example do you think you can learn more from a 20-25 year old winner, or a 40-50 year old teacher?

Perhaps what I am trying to say is would you rather be trained by Mike Tyson, or Mike Tyson's trainer?

Returning to the original point, so the instructor in this case copped a few that were sent his way.

In my opinion if he is the head instructor he should be good enough at his rules to work against a true beginner. If a true beginner came in and had their way with him, his title of instructor should be in question. If he is an assistant instructor or a student instructor, its a little more understandable (not much though) but as the head instructor, I think its sad, and you should find a real instrucotr to train under and take his students with you, they might learn something as well.

Are you ruling out a good teacher who is not a good fighter?

 

[moving target]

Darkintruder I don't know how good you are at fighting, if you have a lot of experience than it may not be to realistic to expect someone to be untouchable.

I do think that if you are running your own school you should have skill in all aspects of your art. If I were to go to a school where the instructor couldn't spar(but tried), I would conclude that at that school sparring wasn't relevant.

That isn't to say that I think every instructor should spar, just if an instructor goes out to spar with a new person they should know what they are doing. I know some good teachers who can't fight in a competition environment very well, yet they turn out good students. Realy bottom line you have to draw your conclusion based on all the info. If you see a lot of good fighters training there, there is probably a reason. If no one can fight, than there is probably a reason.

 

[RCastillo]

Darkintruder, I woulda laid you out and the litigation possibilities be damned. Hope you walk into someones school who thinks like me soon!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

I would listen to Mr. Mavis, he's the new coming of "Tong Po!" :asian:

 

[RCastillo]

I wouldn't have allowed anyone to spar there unless they were a student first, and as far as the rest in dealing with said instructor, is pure conjecture. All I can say is I would respect all, but do not screw up in my house. No revolutionaries allowed. :asian:

 

[RCastillo]

i remember this one time years ago when some thugs from the street walked in my dojo. After watching us for a bit. The instructor teaching that class let one of the thugs with a mouth spar against one of our black belts.
Our black belts kicked him all over the place. The guy kept stopping after every blow and saying wait you can do that or hey thats not fair.

As for your situation I dont know enough about the man you had to deal with to make a correct comment. Some people might be great fighters and so so teachers where others are bad fighters but can teach you what you need to know. Then we have people who are great fighters and great teachers and others who have a nice rank but nothing else past that.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

After reading this, I certainly respect those BB from your school! Dem Chicago people are bad, and to deal with those thugs, even badder! :asian: