But then that is not taiji then is it.
Taiji as a martial art takes a long tome to train and study to be able to use it as a martial art - years.
Traditionally push hands is not worked on early it is worked on later and Shuaijiao is Shuaijiao not taiji although traditional taiji has take downs and sweeps and Sanda rules don't even apply to anything but sports Sanda.
So san shou, which is equivalent to Sanda, is simply a phrase that means "sparring" under most idioms.
And there's a reason for that. Mainly, that those are the rules closest to how chinese arts traditionally sparred. When Taji is a fighting art, it is practiced
mainly by fighting. There's a reason why TCC schools do a very good job of producing san da champions(particularly in the UK)
Also, I was using Shiajiao here in the sense of "competing to wrestle to takedown". Like many things, it can be an event for styles to compete in, or a style in and of itself. TCC has a number of highly effective takedowns and solid takedown defenses, but the only way you're going to get good at landing them is to.......work to takedown.
This gentleman has only Taji experience, but enters a shiajiao tournament with no hitches at all.......almost as if Taji produces primarily a takedown-oriented skills-set!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7360397892170796596
Footage of Chinese push-hands tournaments would further demonstrate the degree to which the lines blur here. I can supply these if needed.
Below is an interview with yang funaki, where he touches on the importance of sparring in Tai Chi and describes the motions he uses to defeat his opponent. His descriptions show more than a passing similarity to Shiajiao or Judo, and I find it hard to not conclude that this is largely because they are systems with similar aims.
Bob Feldman: You started learning Taijiquan as a child from your father and grandfather, and you also learned and taught within the official Wushu establishment. How different was your familyÂ’s traditional training from modern training that Taiji students now receive?
Yang Fukui: It was quite different. Traditionally, we do not train by long sequences of forms. We concentrate more on developing gongfu [...]
BF: How did they practice then?
YF: First of all, they devoted most of their practice to gongfu and martial arts, not to health or "spiritual development," although these two latter aspects certainly underlied their practice. Their emphasis was different. For example, they never practiced more than a two or three form or movements in sequence, in order to develop fighting skill and gongfu, and they never linked more than five forms [ the article clarifies that by "form" he means "posture," not sequence ] together[1]. There were no such things as the 24 or 85 or 108 form Taijiquan. Only two or three forms at a time were used for the solo practice of gongfu.
According to my grandfather, Yang Chen HouÂ’s practice stressed more form combinations while his brother, Yang Ban Hou, put more emphasis upon push hands for fighting and two-man practice. Yang Ban Hou also had fewer students than younger brother, perhaps because his teaching sessions were very rough and painful, as there was a lot of contact[2]. Similarly, in the third generation, my great grandfather, Yang Xiao Hou, was also more interested in push hands and fighting. He had far fewer students than his brother Yang Cheng-fu. He was more "closed door" and interested in preserving the familyÂ’s practice. Yang Cheng-fu was a more of a public figure, and his desire was to promote the study of Yang style Taijiquan throughout China. Therefore, he created the Taolu, which is known in English as "The Long Form."
The Long Form Taijiquan set is good for health and for improving the quality of the bodyÂ’s vital energy. But in order to fight, one must learn how to build up the energy and then explosively send it out. [...]
Whatever [training path] one chooses, it is also good to practice push hands with another person. Push hands can both help to increase oneÂ’s sensitivity and explosivity, and also serve as an introduction to fighting. In addition, a higher level fighter can more easily use explosive force, while lower level Taiji practitioners use brute strength in pushing or striking the opponent instead.
BF: How are push ands and fighting different?
YF: If you watch someone practice the Taiji forms, they are performed slowly, peacefully, and quietly. Fighting is different. Push hands is preliminary training for fighting and usually starts off slowly. In push hands one also has to "listen" or "sense" the opponentÂ’s force, and to remain relaxed and soft while receiving an opponentÂ’s force prior to responding.
In fighting, the opponent does not attack softly or slowly. The attack is as rapid as possible. In Taiji fighting, with experience, one can follow the opponentÂ’s force, and use their own force and their energy to defeat them. [...]
If I want, I can use your energy to fight you, by allowing you to fully extend yourself to the point where you are off-balance. I then redirect your energy back to you in order to defeat you. This must be executed very quickly. If you attempt to attack me quickly, I use circular or spiralic movement to gain the advantage and defeat you[3].
BF: In the traditional way of practice, how did the earlier Yang masters practice the forms to enhance their fighting skills?
YF: First of all, they would initially practice slowly and softly, but
they would also practice the forms and sequences with speed and explosive power. The kicks and punches would also be done at full speed, but the kicks are internally generated by utilizing the power of the whole body.
BF: What other kinds of basics did they practice traditionally besides forms and push hands?
YF: As in any Chinese martial art, one has to develop adequate flexibility through stretching. This is often not appreciated by many people in the West who learn Taiji. Although Taijiquan Taolu will help you obtain better flexibility, if you study Taijiquan as a martial art, it is required. After one gains adequate flexibility, one can start training the muscles, tendons, ligaments, and bones for strength and rooting. This is done by practicing in lower stances and using special weights, the long staff, and the Taiji ball [4].
BF: Can you further discuss the Taiji ball and other training aids that are used in traditional Yang style Taiji?
YF: First, we use a heavy cube-shaped weight. It is used for certain simple exercises to help strengthen the bones, tendons, muscles, and ligaments. It is usually done in a low posture.
Next we progress to the Taiji ball, which is more advanced, as it incorporates circular and spiraling movements while holding the ball in a variety of exercises. It is also done in low postures and can vary in weight from light to heavy (usually between 2.5 to 10 kilograms / 5.5 to 22 pounds), as your root deepens and you become stronger[5].
BF: When did you start to practice Taiji fighting?
YF: I had become accomplished in push hands by the age of 18, having pushed a lot with my grandfather, father, older brother, and their advanced students. I later even won a national championship competition in Weihua City, Shandong Province, in 1984 in the middleweight division of Yang style push hands. [...]
Of course,
one gains fighting experience mainly by fighting, but the application of powerful attacks are soft, elusive responses to an opponentÂ’s attack, and the ability to both follow and redirect the opponents force is more the product of good training in the other aspects of Taiji that we have discussed. If your skills are good, then you need to fight to be able to learn how to use them, while keeping the relaxed, centered mental state of Taijiquan.
The foundation of Taiji fighting comes in part from push hands, although
push hands is not all there is to fighting. Most Taijiquan fighting utilizes close fighting methods, but in push hands we still have to adhere to some form, which is the basis for our movement. Fighting is much more free and without forms.
BF: What if one fights with an opponent is not trained in Taiji?
YF: Taiji fighters will usually look for the opponentÂ’s center and attempt to uproot their balance by whatever technique is used[3, again].
BF: How important are the kicks and punches that one practices in the forms?
YF: In the forms, one practices the kicks and punches very slowly, but when we use them, we use very fast moves. Kicks and punches in a fight and in the forms are different. For example, although a kick may be high in the form, the kicks in fighting are usually low kicks.
BF: In the West, many books have been written suggesting that the Yang family possesses two separate methods of training and there are two separate Tao Lu, one "outdoor" for the public, and a second "indoor" for the family. Is this true?
YF: This is true, but probably not in the way you think. [...] our so-called "Family Taolu" is really the method by which we train, not a series of secret forms. It is rather the ability to take each form or a series of several forms, and utilize them effectively. This is traditional Yang Taiji training. You will recall that the Taolu did not develop substantially until the 3rd generation.
The Taolu created by Yang Cheng-fu and others are good for health and conditioning but are not that meaningful for fighting as the training methods we have discussed: the ball, weight, staff training, and push hands.
BF: How similar or different was your grandfatherÂ’s practice from your fatherÂ’s?
YF: My grandfather practiced only Taijiquan for most of his life. He had a lot of internal energy and fighting skills. [...] But my father was required to teach the government mandated forms, unlike my grandfather, who only practiced and taught traditional Taijiquan. Because my father had to teach modern Taijiquan, perhaps he could not as much convey the deeper training to many of his students. Nor could he teach the old way as often as my grandfather.
Both my grandfather and my father stressed to me that, although I had to teach the new way, I must remember and continue to practice the old way [...].
