“Best” Martial Art

[auntlisa1103]

The quote below is what I think of every time I see/hear a debate about which art/style is “best”.

“It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”​

—Theodore Roosevelt
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910

The truth is, every person’s MA journey is specific to them. At the end of the day, any art/style that I don’t practice myself? Any aspect of someone else’s journey that I’m not traveling with them? I’m just the critic. I’m not in that arena. So I don’t get to judge.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I said it before: the choice of martial art should be based on your natural tendencies in situations that you've previously found yourself in. If you prefer to go straight for the takedown and rough & tumble on the ground; then training in karate, TKD, or boxing is going to be wasted on you. And the same goes vice versa for BJJ and wrestling for people who have natural tendencies to strike.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The quote below is what I think of every time I see/hear a debate about which art/style is “best”.

“It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”​

—Theodore Roosevelt
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910

The truth is, every person’s MA journey is specific to them. At the end of the day, any art/style that I don’t practice myself? Any aspect of someone else’s journey that I’m not traveling with them? I’m just the critic. I’m not in that arena. So I don’t get to judge.

Which automobile is best?

Before one could even attempt to answer the question, one has to ask, obviously, "For what purpose?" A Maserati sports car probably makes a very poor dump truck. Is a Maserati therefore a bad automobile?

Having established that, one has to point out that in martial arts, there are many teachers of many styles, and not all are created equal. There are good teachers and bad teachers. There are good teachers who occasionally have bad students. There are bad teachers who occasionally have students that transcend their lousy teaching.

Likewise, there are students who learn the art they are studying and are diligent about practicing and work hard to excel at it. There are those who attend for some time and pay their dues and collect belts. And everywhere in between.

Finally, there are circumstances. If one presumes a tournament, there are some arts that look very fancy in a competition, and others in which the movements do not spart excitement from the crowd or judges. If one presumes self-defense, there are many kinds of self-defense, in many kinds of situations.

Taken all together, I basically find the never-ending question, "which martial art is best" to be boring at best, annoying at worst. It marks a new or unserious person, or a troll. Sometimes, it marks someone with an ax to grind about their own pet art, which they intend to argue is 'the best' in some objective way.

There is no 'best martial art'. Horses, as they say, for courses.

The real answer is to find an art that suits you and train. But most don't bother. They talk. Lord do they talk.

 

[drop bear]

There are better martial arts practices. And worse ones. There are better martial artists and worse ones.

It is not just random. If it was random. Then anything you do would be as effective as anything else you do. And that moves away from the concept of cause and effect.

 

[auntlisa1103]

There are better martial arts practices. And worse ones. There are better martial artists and worse ones.

It is not just random. If it was random. Then anything you do would be as effective as anything else you do. And that moves away from the concept of cause and effect.

Respectfully, drop bear, you are missing the point, which is that arguing superiority at all is pointless, worthless and unnecessary.

 

[drop bear]

Respectfully, drop bear, you are missing the point, which is that arguing superiority at all is pointless, worthless and unnecessary.

Not if people want a result for their time effort and money.

Then it would be really handy to know. And to know how to know.

I wonder how many people on your side of this argument dogpiled the amazing master Wong?

 

[marvin8]

Not if people want a result for their time effort and money.

Then it would be really handy to know. And to know how to know.

I wonder how many people on your side of this argument dogpiled the amazing master Wong?

That's how I read it. Get into the ring or octagon. Dare to be great. It's not whether you win or lose. It's about growing as a person.

At 18:51, Stephen Espinoza kicks off the Spence vs Ugas Presser beautifully with "The Man in the Arena" speech.

 

[drop bear]

That's how I read it. Get into the ring or octagon. Dare to be great. It's not whether you win or lose. It's about growing as a person.

At 18:51, Stephen Espinoza kicks off the Spence vs Ugas Presser beautifully with "The Man in the Arena" speech.

I fully endorse doing that for the personal development.

But my suggestion doesn't even go that far. And is more a basic concept that the way you train to do a thing. Should help you get better at that thing.

And I would have thought that was implied when discussing training.

But apparently with martial arts everything is as valid as everything else.

Want to learn to punch hard? Throw a cabbage in the air. It is as good as any other method.

How about ground fighting? You should just recite beatnik poetry.

Literally any method if you do it long enough will somehow make you capable at martial arts.

I cannot fathom how people come to that conclusion.

 

[auntlisa1103]

Not if people want a result for their time effort and money.

Then it would be really handy to know. And to know how to know.

I wonder how many people on your side of this argument dogpiled the amazing master Wong?

Far too many of the superiority discussions I witness (here at MT in particular) are not about monetary value. Even if they start that way, they inevitably become about being right.

 

[drop bear]

Far too many of the superiority discussions I witness (here at MT in particular) are not about monetary value. Even if they start that way, they inevitably become about being right.

Ok. If I am going to invest any sort of effort in to an activity. Do you feel like I should get something out of that activity?

 

[bluepanther2]

There is no "best" martial art. Just a "best" martial artist. The one who takes an art that accentuates their natural abilities, be that speed, strength, timing, and is the one left standing, would be the "best" martial artist.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

We keep coming back to the same yardstick. "Best" becomes a judgment based on competition results. "Dare to get into the octogon." Sir, I am 63 years old with heart disease. I don't think so. Shall I therefore hang my head in disgrace and cease all martial arts training because I cannot "dare to be great?" I fear many think so. You're either young and tough and top of the mountain, or you're nothing and shouldn't even bother.

What is the best bottle? I think all bottles are good; what matters is what's in them. And that's subjective. One person prefers beer in their bottle. Another prefers wine. Yet another is happy with water or a soft drink. So what is 'best'? Best is what YOU want. There is no objective 'best' anything, despite people wanting desperately for there to be some kind of definitive 'best' martial artist, baseball player, boxer, tiddly-winks player, or bottle.

Best doesn't exist. Get over it. But if you just can't let it go, then...

I am the best martial artist, practicing the best martial art. Purely subjective of course. I'm just me. Loads of people can outfight me, but that's not how I judge myself. You can't say I'm wrong - only I can say I'm wrong. So there you go, question answered.

 

[drop bear]

There is no "best" martial art. Just a "best" martial artist. The one who takes an art that accentuates their natural abilities, be that speed, strength, timing, and is the one left standing, would be the "best" martial artist.

Only if the martial art training isn't improving the martial artists.

Then obviously the most naturally talented guy will be the most talented martial artist.

If the martial arts training is having an actual effect on those being trained. There will be training that produces better results.

And that will be the "best"

 

[drop bear]

We keep coming back to the same yardstick. "Best" becomes a judgment based on competition results. "Dare to get into the octogon." Sir, I am 63 years old with heart disease. I don't think so. Shall I therefore hang my head in disgrace and cease all martial arts training because I cannot "dare to be great?" I fear many think so. You're either young and tough and top of the mountain, or you're nothing and shouldn't even bother.

What is the best bottle? I think all bottles are good; what matters is what's in them. And that's subjective. One person prefers beer in their bottle. Another prefers wine. Yet another is happy with water or a soft drink. So what is 'best'? Best is what YOU want. There is no objective 'best' anything, despite people wanting desperately for there to be some kind of definitive 'best' martial artist, baseball player, boxer, tiddly-winks player, or bottle.

Best doesn't exist. Get over it. But if you just can't let it go, then...

I am the best martial artist, practicing the best martial art. Purely subjective of course. I'm just me. Loads of people can outfight me, but that's not how I judge myself. You can't say I'm wrong - only I can say I'm wrong. So there you go, question answered.

To use your analogy.

Martial arts pUts the wrong label on the bottle. You order beer. You get tomato sauce.

You complain.

And someone says there is no difference. Some people like tomato sauce.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think it comes down to "What is the best martial art for me?".

Different people have different goals. So you don't want the best martial art. You want the best martial art for your goal.
Simple examples:

1. If I'm a 22-year old looking to be a cage fighter, a serious muay thai gym where they go hard, condition, and get me to be the best standup fighter possible, would be a good fit. Whether or not it's the "Best" for that goal might be debatable, but it'd definitely be up near the top. The bujinkan school that is spending half it's time on how to do stealth infiltration or surprise attacks probably isn't.

2. If I'm nearing 60, have heart or lung issues, and a one-on-one fight isn't something I'm aiming for or expecting to happen anytime soon, that school would be a horrible fit for me. Closer to "worst" martial art (for me). Instead, something like tomiki aikido, where I can still pressure test my techniques and learn martial arts, while not putting too much strain on my body, and learn how to fall properly would be pretty close to the "Best" martial art for me.

3. If I live somewhere dangerous, and knife fights are very common in my area, while the muay thai school would teach me some, it wouldn't help me with situational awareness or how to defend against a knife. The Aikido school would teach me how to defend against a knife a bit, but I don't think anyone would argue it's the best option for that. Instead, a filipino martial art that focuses heavily on knife, has dog-brother-esque sparring, and includes some situational awareness and de-escalation would be the "Best" (or close to the best) martial art for me.

3 different situations. 3 times in which a best martial art, or close, could be discussed, and there would be value in that discussion for someone looking into training. But 3 entirely different answers.

 

[Hanshi]

Correct, there is no "best" martial art. I may be in the minority with this statement but it is what I believe. The best one is the one(s) you enjoy the most, get the most out of "subjectively" and taught by those you hold in the highest respect.

 

[gyoja]

To use your analogy.

Martial arts pUts the wrong label on the bottle. You order beer. You get tomato sauce.

You complain.

And someone says there is no difference. Some people like tomato sauce.

Sounds like you are advocating for your particular choice…

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think it comes down to "What is the best martial art for me?".

Different people have different goals. So you don't want the best martial art. You want the best martial art for your goal.
Simple examples:

1. If I'm a 22-year old looking to be a cage fighter, a serious muay thai gym where they go hard, condition, and get me to be the best standup fighter possible, would be a good fit. Whether or not it's the "Best" for that goal might be debatable, but it'd definitely be up near the top. The bujinkan school that is spending half it's time on how to do stealth infiltration or surprise attacks probably isn't.

2. If I'm nearing 60, have heart or lung issues, and a one-on-one fight isn't something I'm aiming for or expecting to happen anytime soon, that school would be a horrible fit for me. Closer to "worst" martial art (for me). Instead, something like tomiki aikido, where I can still pressure test my techniques and learn martial arts, while not putting too much strain on my body, and learn how to fall properly would be pretty close to the "Best" martial art for me.

3. If I live somewhere dangerous, and knife fights are very common in my area, while the muay thai school would teach me some, it wouldn't help me with situational awareness or how to defend against a knife. The Aikido school would teach me how to defend against a knife a bit, but I don't think anyone would argue it's the best option for that. Instead, a filipino martial art that focuses heavily on knife, has dog-brother-esque sparring, and includes some situational awareness and de-escalation would be the "Best" (or close to the best) martial art for me.

3 different situations. 3 times in which a best martial art, or close, could be discussed, and there would be value in that discussion for someone looking into training. But 3 entirely different answers.

Even with this there's not necessarily a consensus either. There could be multiple arts that would fit the bill, and the school comes into play as well. But there are good or bad arts (and schools) depending on what your ultimate goal is.

 

[drop bear]

Sounds like you are advocating for your particular choice…

The opposite. My choice is determined by the evidence

 

[gyoja]

The opposite. My choice is determined by the evidence

Really? So what has your “evidence” led you to believe?