Beginner question about standing front falls

[maruchan4 3]

Hello,

I am studying Hapkido and am looking for advice about front falls.

I had some severe shoulder injuries in the past in both shoulders, but they are mostly rehabbed.

Still, I am concerned about injury, and this seems to make some kind of mental block.

I can do a front fall from my knees, shooting my legs back, turning face to side, forearms in right position.

I tried the squat version, but it is very hard for me.

I do keep trying from standing, but end up falling on my knees.

Are there any other variations or progressions I can try? Any mental tips? I am practicing on thick wrestling mats.

I have also checked in with my instructor on the situation, and they have been supportive, suggesting falls from knees are OK for now. I think they want to avoid injury, but I also think it may be a mental component.

My other falls are OK and I did Judo for a while, no problems there. I would really like to train the standing front fall.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[RDG3 1]

Wow - falls are such an interesting subject.
I always started my snowboard beginner class with teaching falls.
Shuai Jiao teaches specific falls.
Drunken boxing is possibly greatest inclusion of falls in a form.

When we sit at the cafe shop and watch peeps go by on scooters I always
make jokes about polar momentum and what a great teacher of it is on a scooter
when you crash.

You definitely need to think first in terms of physics or mechanical motion.
Newtonian stuff def applies to falls.
Rules like - maximize the impact area to distribute the force across a larger area.
The fall from the knees I think is problematic as it is similar to the scooter problem.
You are falling with a fulcrum point ( the knees ) so the final point of impact has a multiplied force. It takes blind faith to practice falls like say - off a picnic table.
You want to fall with full frontal impacting at the same instant.
snowboard style - cross the forearms in front and impact flat.
If you have shoulder injuries that may be wrong for you - you are going to have to muster
up courage and fall on the chest - rounding the chest and arching the back.
This is the one you use when you dive for the fumbled weapon and have to grab it
but also have to hit the ground. Arms away from the front.

 

[skribs158 179]

If you front fall correctly it takes some of the force off of your shoulder, but there is still force on your shoulder.

The answer may be just to roll.

In my BJJ class, we recently had someone hurt his elbow from a collar drag, which forces you to front fall. The solution is we've simply told people to roll through the fall.

 

[RDG3 1]

I am thinking about downhill MTB where you are ripping it
down a trail and suddenly there is no more bike under you.
Also thinking about snowboarding and catching the front edge
where you hit so hard full front that the snow has an imprint of every stitch
and you have a perfect imprint of your face and goggles.

 

[drop bear]

Standing front fall is pretty gnarley. I wouldn't want to do it off a mat more than once. He gets really low for his. Which makes sense.


I think you could do the squat in 2 stages. Fall forward then kick your legs out which might be mentally more comfortable

So fall
Shoot your hips up.
Land.
kick your legs out.

Then clean that up as you get more comfortable.

 

[wab25]

Standing front fall is pretty gnarley. I wouldn't want to do it off a mat more than once. He gets really low for his. Which makes sense.

I don't like his falling position. But, I think I can use his position to give you a few tips.

First, always turn you head to the side.

I can do a front fall from my knees, shooting my legs back, turning face to side, forearms in right position.

Always do that!

Now look at his arms in the video at the end. (for me it is the thumb nail frame) His upper arms are perpendicular to the floor. Which means all the force is going through his arms, directly into his shoulders. You can even see his shoulders being pushed up by the arms.... This can't be good on the shoulders especially if there is any impact at all.

I have people make a diamond with your two hands. Face your palms away from you, fingers up. Your index fingers should touch and your thumbs should touch, leaving a diamond in the middle, that you look through. (if you play volley ball, this is very similar setting the ball, except you are look forward through the diamond instead of up at the ball) Now move your hands apart so the fingers and thumbs don't touch.... maybe about 2-3 inches apart, straight in front of your face. maybe 6-8 inches in front of your face. Notice how your elbows drop to find this distance in front of your face. Now find this same position, on the ground as if you had taken the fall. You want your hands flat on the ground, as well as your entire forearms... all the meaty parts. The trick is to find the right angle for your elbows and the right position of the hands. In the correct position, you should be able to comfortably keep full contact of hands and forearms while going flat to the ground, all the way. Your shoulders should not be popping up. When you find the position, where your hands are flat in front of your face, and both forearms are flat and you are comfortable laying face down all the way.... that is the position you want to land in. When you hit the mat, you strike the mat with your forearms and hands hard, you aim to not collapse that structure. But, it is going to flex some, especially on very hard face first throws. You want the flexing to be the elbows bends and the upper arms rotating into natural positions.... instead of directing and concentrating all that force up the arms and directly into the shoulders, spearing them out the back of your body.

In addition to your arms, you want your belly to hit and the tops of your upper legs to hit as well.... to maximize the surface area. Maximizing the surface area will take force off the shoulders as well. We have some throws where uke is falling forward while tori is lifting the legs, accelerating ukes upper body down.... The force on your arms will will be dissipated either by having your arms in position so they go into natural positions or the force goes straight through your shoulders.

 

[maruchan4 3]

Thanks everyone for the great perspectives

If you have shoulder injuries that may be wrong for you - you are going to have to muster
up courage and fall on the chest - rounding the chest and arching the back.

I think you could do the squat in 2 stages. Fall forward then kick your legs out which might be mentally more comfortable

The answer may be just to roll.

In my BJJ class, we recently had someone hurt his elbow from a collar drag, which forces you to front fall. The solution is we've simply told people to roll through the fall.

Now look at his arms in the video at the end... His upper arms are perpendicular to the floor. Which means all the force is going through his arms, directly into his shoulders...

I have people make a diamond with your two hands... You want your hands flat on the ground, as well as your entire forearms... all the meaty parts. The trick is to find the right angle for your elbows and the right position of the hands... When you hit the mat, you strike the mat with your forearms and hands hard, you aim to not collapse that structure. But, it is going to flex some... You want the flexing to be the elbows bends and the upper arms rotating into natural positions.... instead of directing and concentrating all that force up the arms and directly into the shoulders, spearing them out the back of your body.

Really appreciate the detailed breakdown and reply.

Looking forward to trying out these tips thanks again

 

[drop bear]

I don't like his falling position. But, I think I can use his position to give you a few tips.

First, always turn you head to the side.

You are not really supposed to be bouncing your head off the ground.

I would say preferred.