Balintawak Grouping Systems

rompida

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Sure....You dont see a difference but people with much better skills then yours like GM. John Villasin does see the difference and so do i and even some beginners....
I wonder what that says about your skills....

I been training with him long enough to be within the advanced and teaching students (learning how to teach), the last step before instructor.....

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk


How about some specifics there Jan? How many years have you been learning Villasin Balintawak? How many months/years did it take for you to be able to tell the difference? a year, 5 years, 10 years?

Other than these small differences in the grouping system, how is Villasin Balintawak you are learning different from Balintawak as practiced by the rest?

I'm pushing this, because you continue to speak in as vague of generalities as possible. Time to bring some fruit to the table.
 

Robert Klampfer

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Sure....You dont see a difference but people with much better skills then yours like GM. John Villasin does see the difference and so do i and even some beginners....
I wonder what that says about your skills....

Now why did you have to go and say something like that? You don't know me so, I don't take it too personally. However, since you did post it in a public venue I must ask if you would make the same statements or question me in that manner if I were standing in front of you? If not, you're being terribly impolite.

I been training with him long enough to be within the advanced and teaching students (learning how to teach), the last step before instructor.....

I thought I was the one who was childish? You're encroaching on my gig.

Ok then, I'll rephrase -- how long does it take to reach "the advanced" and teach students?

Robert
 
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fangjian

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Sure....You dont see a difference but people with much better skills then yours like GM. John Villasin does see the difference and so do i and even some beginners....
I wonder what that says about your skills....

When you read Robert's earlier posts, you should be able to tell he is only trying to help you. So this is uncalled for.

Earlier in the posts you said;
I think when a Grandmaster within a style like GM. John Villasin says that GM. Velez did not learn the complete Villasin Style, its up to GM. Velez (or his people) to prove his/their claims.....

...and we tried to end the thread right there and save you, when we said... 'just forget it'. However it continued despite our attempts at throwing a rope down the hole you have dug for yourself.

Now, this thread is not about sharing or learning, and is more for amusement which is unfortunate.

I am thinking that you heard your teacher say something that you thought was interesting ( like maybe 'Villasin Balintawak is this and that and whatever'). Then you tried to sound smart on these forums with a few comments. Then we, over here, are interested in your comments and ask you to tell us about it, but you can not, because your own understanding of the material is limited.
 

manhattan1

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Manhattan1 said:
I think when a Grandmaster within a style like GM. John Villasin says that GM. Velez did not learn the complete Villasin Style, its up to GM. Velez (or his people) to prove his/their claims.....

I was saying that because i as said in a earlier post was thinking that maybe GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin was working on his style at the time and sharing parts of it with GM. Velez....
I am not just getting this out of the thin air, many big names backs me up on that there is a difference between the styles as said before....

Yes, Robert i would have said the same in person, the only difference is i would have been able to back it up also....I dont know if what i said is more rude then what you guys have said to me all the time without knowing me.......
How long it takes to reach advanced within the Villasin style is different from student to student, depends on when they have learned the skills it takes and GM. John Villasin jugdes when that is.....

But since the events has taken this kind of a turn, i cant really see the need to keep talking anymore....
So before i or you guys get a new warning from Admin i will just end it here....

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk
 

fangjian

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I was saying that because i as said in a earlier post was thinking that maybe GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin was working on his style at the time and sharing parts of it with GM. Velez....
I am not just getting this out of the thin air, many big names backs me up on that there is a difference between the styles as said before....
Oh well. I really was interested in what you had to say about this. I think I remember you mentioning on FMAtalk, your teacher didn't want you to talk about it online. I will now assume that is why you are reluctant then. That's fine. I guess don't bother to speak about something if you can not. Otherwise this happens;

Jan-"Hey everyone. I heard something really interesting about the history and evolution of Balintawak"
Everyone-"Cool. Tell us about it"
Jan-"No"
Everyone-"Ummm...........Ok...."
 

olivereskrima

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Jan Jensen, please refrain from giving direct conclusion about the origin of the Teaching methods of Balintawak Grouping system. If you want to know you can talk to the Velez Brothers. You can find Master Monie Velez at the Ayala ground every Sunday from 7 am to 12 noon. Don't just jump to conclusion by hearing John Villasin side only, try to reach out some sources around you.

Thank you so much and God bless.

Oliver

GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin made the first Grouping System, later GM. Velez made a Grouping System of his own, but not the same as GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin did teach. GM. Velez did never complete his studies within Villasin Balintawak, so he could not know the same grouping system as GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin did teach according to GM. John Villasin (the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin).
You can see a simple youtube video of it here:


Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk
 
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Robert Klampfer

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Yes, Robert i would have said the same in person, the only difference is i would have been able to back it up also....

:lfao:

How long it takes to reach advanced within the Villasin style is different from student to student, depends on when they have learned the skills it takes and GM. John Villasin jugdes when that is.....

So again I rephrase: how long did it take for John Villasin to declare you as being advanced? You're presenting yourself as some kind of authority on the subjects at hand so, how about you present your credentials since nobody here knows you?

You seem to be very comfortable speaking on behalf of John Villasin. Is he specifically aware of your statements here? Does he approve?

But since the events has taken this kind of a turn, i cant really see the need to keep talking anymore....

Things have only gone where you've led them. We tried to warn you but, you persisted. Now, you've incurred certain... "obligations"... for yourself and John Villasin, whether you know it, accept it, or not.

Robert
 

fangjian

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Since this thread is about groupings. Has anyone who has learned through the grouped method attempted to teach Balintawak ungrouped? Was it difficult, easy etc.?
 

Robert Klampfer

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Has anyone who has learned through the grouped method attempted to teach Balintawak ungrouped? Was it difficult, easy etc.?

Not I. I guess my question would be - why? I mean to say that I'm sure I could but, I'm wondering aloud what reason there would be to do that? Grouped or ungrouped, the desired end state is the same.

Did you have something in mind that prompted the question?

Robert
 

manhattan1

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Jan Jensen, please refrain from giving direct conclusion about the origin of the Teaching methods of Balintawak Grouping system. If you want to know you can talk to the Velez Brothers. You can find Master Monie Velez at the Ayala ground every Sunday from 7 am to 12 noon. Don't just jump to conclusion by hearing John Villasin side only, try to reach out some sources around you.

Thank you so much and God bless.

Oliver

Since i been living here for several years i have talked to GM. MAX CABALLES, Master Monie Velez and i have been training with GM. Nick Elizar from Nicekelstick, Master Wilson from Teovels Balintawak (Shortly), Master Jhun Dacayana from the Dacayana Eskrima System (which i also hold a instructor degree in) and besides these people, many other (F)MA people here in Cebu City, since i dont just vacation here for a few days a year but do live, train and teach here....
I can also tell you that the only people i have heard saying GM. Velez made the grouping system and not GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin is guys from Teovels Balintawak... :)

Most other people seem to know it was GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin and some like Sam Buot and
Visayan Martial Arts even writes on their website..... :)

But since you claimed i was only using one source, without knowing me, let me ask you this: "Have you ever talked to GM. John Villasin?"
Because if not, then you are the one with only one sources not me and i find it ironic you would make a claim like that and so many would "thank you" for it...he he

So again I rephrase: how long did it take for John Villasin to declare you as being advanced?
You seem to be very comfortable speaking on behalf of John Villasin. Is he specifically aware of your statements here? Does he approve?

Wow, you keep getting more childish......
Even if i told you how long it took me it would not tell you anything about my skills, because its different from person to person how fast they learn, a fact you should know.....The only way you could learn about my skills is to jump on a plane and come down here and train with me.....

No, i never speak on behalf of GM. John Villasin and i told you that before, but maybe the reason you would think i do this is because you speak on behalf of your Grandmaster?

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk
 

Robert Klampfer

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Even if i told you how long it took me it would not tell you anything about my skills, because its different from person to person how fast they learn, a fact you should know.....The only way you could learn about my skills is to jump on a plane and come down here and train with me.....

No, i never speak on behalf of GM. John Villasin and i told you that before, but maybe the reason you would think i do this is because you speak on behalf of your Grandmaster?

:banghead:

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like they're trapped in a Pee Wee Herman movie?

Robert
 

bobby taboada

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since i been living here for several years i have talked to gm. max caballes, master monie velez and i have been training with gm. Nick elizar from nicekelstick, master wilson from teovels balintawak (shortly), master jhun dacayana from the dacayana eskrima system (which i also hold a instructor degree in) and besides these people, many other (f)ma people here in cebu city, since i dont just vacation here for a few days a year but do live, train and teach here....
i can also tell you that the only people i have heard saying gm. Velez made the grouping system and not ggm. Atty. Jose villasin is guys from teovels balintawak... :)

most other people seem to know it was ggm. Atty. Jose villasin and some like sam buot and visayan martial arts even writes on their website..... :)

but since you claimed i was only using one source, without knowing me, let me ask you this: "have you ever talked to gm. John villasin?"
because if not, then you are the one with only one sources not me and i find it ironic you would make a claim like that and so many would "thank you" for it...he he



wow, you keep getting more childish......
Even if i told you how long it took me it would not tell you anything about my skills, because its different from person to person how fast they learn, a fact you should know.....the only way you could learn about my skills is to jump on a plane and come down here and train with me.....

No, i never speak on behalf of gm. John villasin and i told you that before, but maybe the reason you would think i do this is because you speak on behalf of your grandmaster?

Sincerly yours,

jan jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk

hi jan,
five months to go my friend, and i think i am going to have a good vacation in cebu.
Sincerly yours
bobby taboada
 

fangjian

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Since i been living here for several years i have talked to GM. MAX CABALLES, Master Monie Velez and i have been training with GM. Nick Elizar from Nicekelstick, Master Wilson from Teovels Balintawak (Shortly), Master Jhun Dacayana from the Dacayana Eskrima System (which i also hold a instructor degree in) and besides these people, many other (F)MA people here in Cebu City, since i dont just vacation here for a few days a year but do live, train and teach here....
I can also tell you that the only people i have heard saying GM. Velez made the grouping system and not GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin is guys from Teovels Balintawak... :)

Most other people seem to know it was GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin and some like Sam Buot and Visayan Martial Arts even writes on their website..... :)

But since you claimed i was only using one source, without knowing me, let me ask you this: "Have you ever talked to GM. John Villasin?"
Because if not, then you are the one with only one sources not me and i find it ironic you would make a claim like that and so many would "thank you" for it...he he
Good point. It is true about 90% of Balintawak family believes Atty Villasin created this, and about 10% say it was Mr Velez. Everyone shoud just know both stories.



Wow, you keep getting more childish......
Even if i told you how long it took me it would not tell you anything about my skills, because its different from person to person how fast they learn, a fact you should know.....The only way you could learn about my skills is to jump on a plane and come down here and train with me.....

No, i never speak on behalf of GM. John Villasin and i told you that before, but maybe the reason you would think i do this is because you speak on behalf of your Grandmaster?
I don't think Robert is interested in how skilled you are. I think he was just wondering how long you have been a part of this Balintawak family for. IMO, looking at the posts Robert does not speak on behalf of his teacher. Your posts do sound as if you are speaking for GM Villasin. If you are not, I think it would help you if you change the way you write.
Not I. I guess my question would be - why? I mean to say that I'm sure I could but, I'm wondering aloud what reason there would be to do that? Grouped or ungrouped, the desired end state is the same.

Did you have something in mind that prompted the question?
I agree the end state is the same. I am always looking for different ways to teach martial arts to my students. Sometimes I'm looking for a better way and sometimes I just get bored.
 

Carol

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...Monty Python's argument clinic? Getting the info. out here is great; but where there obviously won't be agreement...it's OK!

I would like to buy a license for me pet cat Erich... :D
 

manhattan1

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hi jan,
five months to go my friend, and i think i am going to have a good vacation in cebu.
Sincerly yours
bobby taboada

Ok, i look forward to meeting you.... :)

I don't think Robert is interested in how skilled you are. I think he was just wondering how long you have been a part of this Balintawak family for. IMO, looking at the posts Robert does not speak on behalf of his teacher. Your posts do sound as if you are speaking for GM Villasin. If you are not, I think it would help you if you change the way you write.

I know what Robert was trying to say, but as i said to him time does not tell how skilled a person is, i have seen people who been within (F)MA for 1 year and are very good, but again i have also seen people within (F)MA that has been training for over 10 years and are still no good at all.....The only way to find out is to train with people and see their skills first hand.........
Please also note that its not only Balintawak expirence that counts, every time i see a style (also Balintawak), i find many similarities with things i have been training before and it helps me a lot to understand new styles.....These days i also use all of my background within my play in Balintawak even the Bujinkan (Ninjutsu)..... :)

I NEVER speak for GM. John Villasin, he can speak for him self....
Like in this video where he been kind enough to try to explain the difference between the Villasin Style and Teovels Balintawak, i hope it give you some answers:

http://www.fma-arnis.dk/The_difference_between_the_Villasin_style_and_Teovels_Balintawak%20


Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk
 
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Shartsell

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Jan, First you said:
Velez did never complete his studies within Villasin Balintawak, so he could not know the same grouping system as GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin did teach according to GM. John Villasin (the son of GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin).

and

I think when a Grandmaster within a style like GM. John Villasin says that GM. Velez did not learn the complete Villasin Style, its up to GM. Velez (or his people) to prove his/their claims.....

Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk

then you say:

No, i never speak on behalf of GM. John Villasin and i told you that before, but maybe the reason you would think i do this is because you speak on behalf of your Grandmaster?

I NEVER speak for GM. John Villasin, he can speak for himself....

first you say according to and he said.... then I never speak for him.
which is it? either your quoting him or your not.
 

Rich Parsons

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I know what Robert was trying to say, but as i said to him time does not tell how skilled a person is, i have seen people who been within (F)MA for 1 year and are very good, but again i have also seen people within (F)MA that has been training for over 10 years and are still no good at all.....The only way to find out is to train with people and see their skills first hand.........
Please also note that its not only Balintawak expirence that counts, every time i see a style (also Balintawak), i find many similarities with things i have been training before and it helps me a lot to understand new styles.....These days i also use all of my background within my play in Balintawak even the Bujinkan (Ninjutsu)..... :)

I NEVER speak for GM. John Villasin, he can speak for him self....
Like in this video where he been kind enough to try to explain the difference between the Villasin Style and Teovels Balintawak, i hope it give you some answers:

http://www.fma-arnis.dk/The_difference_between_the_Villasin_style_and_Teovels_Balintawak%20


Sincerly yours,

Jan Jensen
http://www.fma-arnis.dk

Jan,

A couple of points if I may:

1) Time does not matter. I agree. But if you cannot answer a question posed to you, and you are slippery with your answers than all your answers are slippery and suspect to the truth.

(* You do more for my arguements, with your posts than I could ever do, which is why I have staid out *).

2) You are speaking for your instructor. If that was not your intent then you may need to understand what you have done. As that was the impact. I have taken that according the formal doctrine of those you train with, this is the absolute truth and only you are speaking the truth.

Your presentation is that you are speaking with authority of your instructor and senior in the art.

3) You have switched points multiple times and switched genreations, when you make a mistake admit it and state, that was not your intent, but I am willing to correct that perception now. This goes much further in making your points.


4) Good Luck when you meet some of these people. If truth is found out only by skill (* which is how I have read many of your posts *) then you maybe finding new levels of truth, as many people are not as nice in person as they are on the net where their posts can be tracked. This is by no means a threat, nor to imply a threat by anyone to you, just going to give my point of view as I have seen your posts. Nothing specific I can point too, only taken as a whole does this come out this way.

5) I do commend you going to train with qualified instructors. But note that not all the qualified instrutors live in Cebu or the PI in general. Many have left for other parts of the world and have qualified students teaching as well. I wish you the best in the Balintawak Family for your training and for your teaching if that is your goal.
 

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