- Sep 17, 2003
- Reaction score
- Longmont Colorado
Atlanta-Kenpo said:I can tell you that this is something that I have been experimenting with for about 2 years now and I will say that yes without a doubt that some of the techniques can work on the group.
I use the 1st 3 moves of 5 swords to get out of the guard all the time against trained bjj grapplers.
establish your base (on your knees). R horizintal outward heel palm to the R floating rib/liver then R heel palm to there solar plexus with at the same time use all the torque to execute a R back elbow to thier L thigh (you do this right and I promise they will let go). Thier gurad will then be broken. Execute a R pressing forarm strike to thier L thigh and make sure thier L thigh is on the mat (make sure your L hand it up high to check the right leg from kicking you). Then roll your L hand either over or under thier R thigh so that you can either escape by going over thier leg to the 1/2 guard or take thier R legs and pass it it front of you.
You guys play with that and tell me what you think. If anyone is interested I can take a video clip of me doing to to help explain what I am talking about.
Atlanta-Kenpo said:1st thing: I am an experienced grappler myself (20+ yrs wrestling, 3 yrs bjj/submission wrestling) so I understnad your point. This particular escape does not work so well against the open guard or butterfly guard so folks that have a very active guard like that well I have a few other ideas for that. However, if they are actively trying to tie up my arm this is usualy done by them trying to controll your elbows by pulling towards thier own head. I simply create a wedge/triangle with my arms (hands close together and elbows apart) and as they are pull up on my arms I roll my elbows out and roll my palms from the up position to palm down thus going with the force and they will lose thier hold because they no longer have a bracing angle to hol on to. It works well but then you have to then flow right into the escape.
A little birdy told me you were gonna be at Josh's place in PA for the Cacoy, Whitson seminar and I was hoping to finially meet up with you there. Maybe another event.
I think the attempt to find grappling applications for the Kenpo material, whether is was there or not from the beginning, is an admiral and important task.
Would it be more efficient to learn a pure grappling system, then learn a pure striking system and attempt to blend those together or keep one system as the base and adapt the secondary art to meet the needs of the first? This is not a rhetorical question. Please give opinions.
Well, I think these two will blend together well once I learn my second art better. In jujitsu, I will be participating in a freestyle tournament at the end of the month. We were practicing for that in class now to prepare. I found that initially in the freestyle matches, I tend to default to kenpo (it is what I knew best and already hardwired into me), but as I warmed up and and relaxed some more, I was able to transition my mind to jujitsu. Funny, but there are several moves in DZRJ that is similar to Kenpo already, so I am assured that I will do fine. The more experienced I get with jujitsu, I do not forsee any problems of being able to blend them when needed.It is a repeating question in my mind. If I learn two disparate systems, then how well will I synthesize these two in a combative scenario? Does such training create a schizophrenic fighter unable to make correct decisions? I guess it doesn't have to.
Agreed.Each technique in Kenpo should be analyzed and evaluated for use with different styles of fighters during the "what if" phase. So, even though some techniques deal with tackles etc., what would you do on 5 Swords if someone attempts a single leg takedown after the punch? How would you adapt? The only reason I even ask this question is due to the popularity of such fighting on television and the abundance of groundfighting schools out there. It is simply a way people are learning to fight now. That may change in 20 years.
90% of the time the person will have to bridge the gap and effect a takedown. Thus, shouldn't we spend more time working on Kenpo techniques in this range than from our backs. On the ground I will resort to the nastiest things in my head because I don't want to be there. Beware the caged animal!!! If a grappler is intent on doing those things to me, I doubt he would have committed multiple weapons to a takedown to start the fight.
As mentioned, it is simply harder for a traditional Kenpoist to make techniques work from that position (I didn't say impossible!). I am merely stating that in adapting our Kenpo to grappling scenarios, shouldn't we focus on the moments just before going to the ground more or at least equally?