Apology and Clarification

[Dale Seago]

In the late and no doubt unlamented Tenjindo thread, I sort of got into it with Ralph Severe. "Flame wars" are not something I normally involve myself in, and I've comfortably ignored Ralph as harmless for years because I've understood him to be speaking from the perspective of someone outside the Bujinkan. Plenty of people outside the organization slam the Bujinkan, its Soke, its instructors, and its methods, and I don't much care as they're not part of my world.

In the Tenjindo thread, however, Ralph started off by seeming to imply he is a legitimate Bujinkan instructor who had no real knowledge of another instructor nearby who's senior to him (though a 6MB file of his e-budo posts compiled and archived by a judan in Michigan shows that this is not the case). That sort of rubbed me the wrong way, and things went downhill from there. I want to apologize to everyone for that, especially to the moderators: I appreciate the difficulties of their position, as I've been doing the same job myself for several years over at Sword Forum International.

Since that thread was locked, I've gone ahead and done the obvious thing I should have done earlier, and checked with Japan. The Bujinkan Hombu Administrator asked Hatsumi sensei at Sunday's training if Ralph Severe is currently a member, and Hatsumi immediately replied "No". Had the question been asked about any number of other people, Soke might have had to look up the instructor's file -- however, he knows very well who Ralph Severe is; and as a 15th dan Australian instructor who's been living in Japan the last few years recently commented, "The Japanese do have an idea of what kind of person he is but it is not their backyard. I have never heard his name mentioned in a positive way by any Japanese Shihan or by Soke."

Since Hatsumi sensei says Ralph Severe is a non-member, I can get back to ignoring him.

 

[Enson]

Since that thread was locked, I've gone ahead and done the obvious thing I should have done earlier, and checked with Japan. The Bujinkan Hombu Administrator asked Hatsumi sensei at Sunday's training if Ralph Severe is currently a member, and Hatsumi immediately replied "No". Had the question been asked about any number of other people, Soke might have had to look up the instructor's file -- however, he knows very well who Ralph Severe is; and as a 15th dan Australian instructor who's been living in Japan the last few years recently commented, "The Japanese do have an idea of what kind of person he is but it is not their backyard. I have never heard his name mentioned in a positive way by any Japanese Shihan or by Soke."

Since Hatsumi sensei says Ralph Severe is a non-member, I can get back to ignoring him.

are you ready? are you ready? then lets get it on! hee hee!:mp5:

 

[Elizium]

In the late and no doubt unlamented Tenjindo thread, I sort of got into it with Ralph Severe. "Flame wars" are not something I normally involve myself in, and I've comfortably ignored Ralph as harmless for years because I've understood him to be speaking from the perspective of someone outside the Bujinkan. Plenty of people outside the organization slam the Bujinkan, its Soke, its instructors, and its methods, and I don't much care as they're not part of my world.

In the Tenjindo thread, however, Ralph started off by seeming to imply he is a legitimate Bujinkan instructor who had no real knowledge of another instructor nearby who's senior to him (though a 6MB file of his e-budo posts compiled and archived by a judan in Michigan shows that this is not the case). That sort of rubbed me the wrong way, and things went downhill from there. I want to apologize to everyone for that, especially to the moderators: I appreciate the difficulties of their position, as I've been doing the same job myself for several years over at Sword Forum International.

Since that thread was locked, I've gone ahead and done the obvious thing I should have done earlier, and checked with Japan. The Bujinkan Hombu Administrator asked Hatsumi sensei at Sunday's training if Ralph Severe is currently a member, and Hatsumi immediately replied "No". Had the question been asked about any number of other people, Soke might have had to look up the instructor's file -- however, he knows very well who Ralph Severe is; and as a 15th dan Australian instructor who's been living in Japan the last few years recently commented, "The Japanese do have an idea of what kind of person he is but it is not their backyard. I have never heard his name mentioned in a positive way by any Japanese Shihan or by Soke."

Since Hatsumi sensei says Ralph Severe is a non-member, I can get back to ignoring him.

With respect to both guys, I will say this: I will not make comments over this statement but will watch in future how this may play out.

Now, can we get back to training?

 

[tshadowchaser]

I will make a comment befor this goes any further.

MOD WARNING

Keep this disscussion POLITE and RESPECTFUL.

Take personal wars to pm or email.
Feel free to use the ignor option

Sheldon Bedell MT mod
aka Tshadowchaser

 

[r.severe]

It is applauding to find such BS coming from a Bujinkan member as Dale shihan..
I have stated my position.. with this type of human being.
Simple.
Please don't be dishonest.. have integrity, honor, respect... be pragmatic...

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

Let us head this off right now.

Dale says that the Honbu administrator asked Hatsumi if Ralph was a member of the Bujinkan or not. Hatsumi said he was not.

Right after a moderator warned us to keep this respectfull, Ralph launches a post accusing Dale of "BS" and being dishonest.

Things are going to go down hill from here.

UNLESS!!!!!!

The guy who asked Hatsumi posts on Kutaki.org. He does not post here, but Dale knows he looks over his shoulder. If Dale lied about what he said, I would expect him to raise the point in a thread over at Kutaki. If he is satisified with the truth of what Dale said, there will be no post. So, try to find a post denying what Dale said by him. If there is none, then the matter is settled and there is no need to scream and yell at each other. Ok?

Heck, you may even start a thread on kutaki if you really care. I think most of us will just believe Dale and the lack of response from kutaki and leave it at that.

There really is no more to say. We can leave it like that and not have any more flame wars. There is no need for accusations and the like.

 

[r.severe]

Here Donny shihan...
It is applauding to find such immature statements coming from a Bujinkan member of any rank.... in regards to the lies they pass of as truth about any person or persons they do not know or have personal contact with.
I have stated my position.. with the Bujinkan organization and how I personally do not wish to be involved with human beings such as Dale shihan and Donny shihan. These are examples of the organizations members then who would wnat to be a part of it.
Simple.
Please don't be dishonest.. have integrity, honor, respect... be pragmatic... these are qualities I live by... and have not found them in the membership I wish to be a part of... that call themselves Bujinkan shidoshi ho, shidoshi, shihan.
I believe I have made myself clear Donny shihan.
Do you have any questions now?
...................................................................................
I know where I stand with the Soke of the Bujinkan Dojo.
I could careless what others say.. and repeat from hearsay... from any source. It doesn't change their hateful and misleading statements or lies about my own personal life or warrior methodology.
It does not change what I have posted or said in person on my position as a human being because I speak the truth and don't lie.

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[ronhughen]

All heresay about what people in Japan say about Ralph shihan aside, I remember seeing Hatsumi sensei at the 1991 Texas TaiKai stand on the stage and say of Ralph shihan “He is a genius and a master technician”

He went on to say something like Ralph Severe was living the experience, unlike others just going through the motions for the sake of a demo, really killing the foe as if he were in combat.

I was very green at the time, but it made quite an impression on me. My impression was that Hatsumi sensei was very impressed with Ralph Severe.

 

[ronhughen]

All heresay about what people in Japan say about Ralph shihan, I remember seeing Hatsumi sensei at the 1991 Texas TaiKai stand on the stage and say of Ralph shihan “He is a genius and a master technician”
QUOTE]

I believe there is a video tape of Hatusmi Sensei saying this on the stage . . . although I don't know how to obtain it.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Don,
I have tried a few times now to log on to Kutaki.org. but kep getting a "page cannot be displayed" message. Do you have a different or complet address for this area??
thanks

 

[Dale Seago]

Ron:

That was 13 years ago. I was talking about last Sunday, when Soke was personally asked at my request, which makes it a bit more than "hearsay".

Dale says that the Honbu administrator asked Hatsumi if Ralph was a member of the Bujinkan or not. Hatsumi said he was not.

. . .The guy who asked Hatsumi posts on Kutaki.org. He does not post here, but Dale knows he looks over his shoulder. If Dale lied about what he said, I would expect him to raise the point in a thread over at Kutaki. If he is satisified with the truth of what Dale said, there will be no post. So, try to find a post denying what Dale said by him. If there is none, then the matter is settled and there is no need to scream and yell at each other. Ok?.

Hasn't happened yet.

 

[Dale Seago]

Don,
I have tried a few times now to log on to Kutaki.org. but kep getting a "page cannot be displayed" message. Do you have a different or complet address for this area??
thanks

Go to http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/

There's no need to register and log in just to look at posts or use the search function.

 

[ronhughen]

I'm sorry, this is what I was referring to as "heresay". I did not mean to imply anythinig that Hatsumi sensei may have said directly to you was heresay. Please accept my apology for not being more clear.

My question would be is what kind of person do THEY say he is. Do they actually know him? Or do they only KNOW what others (possibly with somewhat hostile attitudes) say about him. I submit myself as somone that HAS known him for a long time, and find him to be one of the best people I know, personally. People can ask me about him, I'll be honest.

 

[Dale Seago]

Okay, that I will accept as a bit of a cheap shot that I shouldn't have indulged in. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[ronhughen]

No problem, Dale shihan.

 

[ronhughen]

"The Japanese do have an idea of what kind of person he is but it is not their backyard. I have never heard his name mentioned in a positive way by any Japanese Shihan or by Soke."

:idunno: So, my question remains . . . what "kind of person" do these "Japanese" say he is? No answers? This is so typical of the things said about Ralph shihan . . . "this person says this" . . . "that person says that" . . . You guys aren't even putting out specifics, just impying thing saying "the KIND of person he is" . . . well you are writing things on a publlic forum, so you need to be specific whedn you are talking about a person and be prepared to defend what you say . . . there is a legal term for saying untrue, undefendble things about a person in public, especially in writing . . . its called slander.


"The guy who asked Hatsumi posts on Kutaki.org. He does not post here, but Dale knows he looks over his shoulder. If Dale lied about what he said, I would expect him to raise the point in a thread over at Kutaki. If he is satisified with the truth of what Dale said, there will be no post. So, try to find a post denying what Dale said by him. If there is none, then the matter is settled and there is no need to scream and yell at each other. Ok?."

No, I don't think its "OK" . . . I can't accept statements being blessed as "true" by somebody that is supposed to be passing judgment by NOT saying something . . . are you kidding!!??? For all I know he thinks all this is totally stupid and would not stoop so low as to dignify it with a response, that would be my position if I did not read so much undefendable, unfair comments about Ralph. Please supply some statements by some reputable persons, with real knowledge or real personal experience about Ralph, because all I ever read about here is from people that don't know Ralph personally, quoting others that don't konw Ralph personally (probalby few have even met him and are just basing opinions and comments on rumors and gossip) . . . So, can anybody that has actual, personal, real experience about what a bad person Ralph is tell me about it?:asian:

 

[Elizium]

there is a legal term for saying untrue, undefendble things about a person in public, especially in writing . . . its called slander.

Err... no... it is not slander, it is libel. Slander is the spoken form of making accusations against a character. Libel is in written form. If I said for instance, your mother looked like a Tengu that had been beaten with the ugly stick, that is slander. In a written form and transmitted, it becomes libel. the written word is shown and recorded.

I am just saying this to set your statement correct.

You may now return to your pseudo hatred of each other.

 

[Bujingodai]

Regardless of what is said, or status in any org. Ralph scared the crap out of me when I saw him in action in Atlanta. So I like him LOLOL.

Now I have my opinions of Mr Severe. A little long winded sometimes to make a point yes, a tad obscure yes, sometimes too basic and raw yes. But he is one of the few with enough nuts to make a point no one wants to touch and has the knowledge and training to back up his position.

This is just my 2 cents. I have nothing bad to say about Dale either. So I don't hate anyone. But I had to defend my thoughts of Ralph.

There have been a bunch of high profile people leave the Kan. This is an issue that should be looked at seriously and not dismissed as them not being able to handle it, dishonest people, bad hearts whatever.

 

[Elizium]

Here is a thought... why is it only some of the American bujinkan people that are argueing all the time? Is this is why in the last post some people are leaving the bujinkan because of this?

 

[Jay Bell]

there is a legal term for saying untrue, undefendble things about a person in public, especially in writing . . . its called slander.

No...and it's not libel either. Dale asked the Hombu administrator, who in turn relayed what Hatsumi sensei said regarding the issue. Libel would be if Dale made the entire story up. He's backed himself up...given you an open forum to address the question...but you'd rather sit here and complain. Please.

The Hombu admin stated that Ralph was not a member. If you see issues with this, take it up with him. Killing the messenger isn't helping your cause much.

So, my question remains . . . what "kind of person" do these "Japanese" say he is? No answers? This is so typical of the things said about Ralph shihan . . . "this person says this" . . . "that person says that" . . . You guys aren't even putting out specifics, just impying thing saying "the KIND of person he is"

This statement would do nothing for you but insure that you really don't understand the Nipponese mindset. *Specifics* that you beg for are rarely discussed, especially when it's of a unpleasant bit about someone. I'm not sure I follow much of your logic here. You don't believe that the story that Dale relayed was true...yet...you turn around and ask what the Shihan, etc think about him? Why would you trust such a thing coming from someone who, in your mind, has already "slandered" him? Why don't you go to Japan and ask them yourself?

Here is a thought... why is it only some of the American bujinkan people that are argueing all the time?

Because America is blessed with Ralph.