Anyone know the back story here?

drop bear

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"Brown" isn't a BJJ rank, is my point. Just because these guys borrowed the color set and sequence from BJJ, they're not claiming BJJ rank, any more than they are claiming NGA rank.

Exept the colors are no coincidence. They use those colors because of the brand the BJJ colors have created. Thats fine. But one of the reasons BJJ has that brand is because there are BJJ guys who take that sort of brand very seriously.

Rightly or wrongly they realistically may need to back that up with guys who treat BJJ like a religion.
 

Nobody Important

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"Brown" isn't a BJJ rank, is my point. Just because these guys borrowed the color set and sequence from BJJ, they're not claiming BJJ rank, any more than they are claiming NGA rank.
You are right, they are not. I think where the controversy lies is in the claim of equivalence. By using the BJJ system of ranking, they are stating they are on par with them. They may very well be, they may not be. BJJ has a long history of backing up any claim they make. They used this to secure their validity in the martial community. Can this group make the same claim? IMO it is like a mockingbird pretending to be another bird so that it can get a free meal. It isn't fair for a system to sacrifice and develop a set of standards so that someone else can pretend to do the same and gain from it. Imitation may be a form of flattery, but it is still a form of stolen valor. They could have easily created any type of ranking system, hell some TKD schools have a camouflage belt. It isn't hard to create a ranking system, no need to steal one from a respected style. Let alone a Japanese one for a Chinese style, China has a Duan system they could have used.
 

Gerry Seymour

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You are right, they are not. I think where the controversy lies is in the claim of equivalence. By using the BJJ system of ranking, they are stating they are on par with them. They may very well be, they may not be. BJJ has a long history of backing up any claim they make. They used this to secure their validity in the martial community. Can this group make the same claim? IMO it is like a mockingbird pretending to be another bird so that it can get a free meal. It isn't fair for a system to sacrifice and develop a set of standards so that someone else can pretend to do the same and gain from it. Imitation may be a form of flattery, but it is still a form of stolen valor. They could have easily created any type of ranking system, hell some TKD schools have a camouflage belt. It isn't hard to create a ranking system, no need to steal one from a respected style. Let alone a Japanese one for a Chinese style, China has a Duan system they could have used.
I guess I've never really cared much what ranks were in other styles, as long as it worked for them. It seems an uninteresting controversy to me.
 

geezer

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They could have easily created any type of ranking system, hell some TKD schools have a camouflage belt. It isn't hard to create a ranking system, no need to steal one from a respected style. Let alone a Japanese one for a Chinese style, China has a Duan system they could have used.

Yeah. I think you've got that "stolen valor" thing about right. If what they teach is really effective, any ranking system will do. Or none.

Personally, I find ranking a perfectly acceptable way to teach in today's world, and it's a great way to motivate students to progress through the curriculum. But what makes the BJJ belt system so respected is that it is simple, ranks are earned slowly with considerable investment of time, and then they are tested against non-compliant partners. And the (grappling) system as a whole is constantly tested and evolving through competition. At least that's what I've been hearing (I'm not a BJJ guy).

...So if WC/WT/VT wants to get real respect, maybe that's what we should be copying, not ripping off somebody else's rank system. just sayin'.

BTW, am I the only one that thought that the guy (the instructor?) in that flippy-floppy chi-sau clip had his head in a very dangerous position ....considering that not all combat will be restricted to body shots?
 

Nobody Important

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I guess I've never really cared much what ranks were in other styles, as long as it worked for them. It seems an uninteresting controversy to me.
Personally, I could care less about rank or association. But to some people or organizations (especially the military) trying to align yourself or put yourself in the same league as someone else without proving it is a big deal. It's deceitful, I get it but nothing to loose sleep over. People can do what they like, they just need to realize there may be consequences to deal with. In this instance it was something that could have easily been avoided, they purposely choose to mimic BBJ in structure to ride the coat tails of their reputation. To each their own, but beware retaliation from those prepared to defend any honor they feel challenged.
 

Gerry Seymour

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BTW, am I the only one that thought that the guy (the instructor?) in that flippy-floppy chi-sau clip had his head in a very dangerous position ....considering that not all combat will be restricted to body shots?
When I watched it, I said to my wife, "Somebody needs to give him a quick slap. That'll move that head back."
 

JR 137

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Oh yes because someone going to go shoot up a martial art school for wearing the same belt colours....pretty silly comparison. Maybe that happens in street gangs but this is martial arts they've chosen to do that who the hell cares it's not hurting anyone

I'm quite sure Drop Bear's joke that you quoted went way over your head.
 

drop bear

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A friend of mine wore pink pants and a tie died top for a while. A few of Matt Thornton's guys used to rock them as well.

Tie dye is awsome. And nicely spruces up a tired white gi.
 
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anerlich

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BTW, am I the only one that thought that the guy (the instructor?) in that flippy-floppy chi-sau clip had his head in a very dangerous position ....considering that not all combat will be restricted to body shots?

No, that was rubbish. I kept wishing the other guy would just punch him in the face and put a stop to it.
 

Gerry Seymour

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No, that was rubbish. I kept wishing the other guy would just punch him in the face and put a stop to it.
Agreed. He was taking advantage of the bodyshot-only format, getting in more bodyshots because he was leaning his head in. Just one slap would have removed that advantage.
 
D

Dylan9d

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I couldn't imagine what theory's a ranking system could bring with it until I read this topic. It is hilarious......
 

PiedmontChun

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BJJ is unique for having fewer recognized belt rankings so you logically spend much more time in that rank before promoting. It *is* recognizable since it is so standardized, but that is not what makes BJJ respectable. It seems silly for an MA that is worlds apart from BJJ to copy just an outward trapping of it. A pointless innovation perhaps?

That video..... I would not have thought that to be sparring, but yet 'sparring' is part of the title? Calling trading strikes back and forth with no real intent 'sparring' would seem to be a much bigger cause for confusion than your belt system not being recognizable to the rest of the MA world (I would think).
 

Danny T

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For what it's worth the colors shown in the OP isn't belts but colored patches.
And many very good legitimate BJJ schools use colors at the lower levels than just White to Blue. The North American Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Federation requires White, Gray,Yellow, Orange, and Green prior to Blue for ages 15 and under.
 

Steve

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For what it's worth the colors shown in the OP isn't belts but colored patches.
And many very good legitimate BJJ schools use colors at the lower levels than just White to Blue. The North American Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Federation requires White, Gray,Yellow, Orange, and Green prior to Blue for ages 15 and under.
Just FYI, the idea, and I think it's a good one, is that a blue belt for kids is like the black belt for adults. Kids work toward their first adult rank. And also, fwiw, this has not changed significantly since at least 2005 when I started training.
 

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