Anting Anting, Oracion, Indonesian ritual

[lost_tortoise]

So how 'bout the rituals for protection and combat that exist in Southeast Asia? I would like to pick some brains on the subject....one of the reasons I wanted this forum. What do you folks know about these rituals? Moro, I think you might be able to respond.

Also, are there other arts with these sorts of rituals?


~geoffrey~

trying to keep this forum alive.......

 

[moromoro]

hi geoff

yeah its terry here

yes these rituals exist in the philippines, we are a very supertisious country. Fighting wise, plenty of these rituals no longer exist but they have been kept alive though spiritual healers and witch doctors in the country, many filipino's visit spiritual healers daily, the healers dont have a set price but they will accept what you can give them just like old eskrima instructors.
My mother inlaw is a very well known healer living in sorsogon people travel from manila to see her she uses chickens as well as oracion prayers to help cure anything, mainly internal problems. there are many spiritual healers some are better than others.

they are 3 major points of spirituality that can be used in fighting in the FMA from what i know (other arts may have more)

these are

KULAM- spells and black magic

oracion and anting anting

many of the older generation know of this, on my last trip i was able to learn some oracion, and kulam but no anting anting, with every spell there is a counter, i was also involved in a blessing ritual to bless me from evil and other kulam.
my grandfather (when he was alive R.I.P) also used a bronze knife as his anting anting,

there is a story about a great eskrimador called OMAN (friend of islao romo) from cebu he was the tacher to both olipio navarro and artemio paez he possed oracion a challenger came to challenge him and oman went to see this man oman said if you want to fight i will give you time to think about it, he touched the man and lefthim paralised ther outside of omans home in the rain for the whole night.... there are plenty of stories of oracion beign used..

hope this helps

terry

 

[moromoro]

hi i posted this on another website but i will paste it here also.

it is about a weapon practised by my uncle in his system the buntot pagi,

this is correct
in zamboanga city it is belived that you should carry this weapon at night as it can harm and chase away evil spirits (if you see a ghost in front of you turn around and stike you buntot pagi) another weapon used and one which was favoured by my grandfather is a knife made out of bronze, when you see or feel the evil spirits stab the knife on the ground in front of you and recite certain oracion..........

the buntot pagi is also a favoured fighting weapon it is about 4-5 feet althought i have seen them much shorter.. it is also very rough and has small spikes and many people lace them with certain (poisons) liquids and powders when if struck by the buntot pagi can cause a seriors infection and even death...


thanks

terry

 

[Cruentus]

I am not from the Filipines, and I am not Pilipino, but having been involved in FMA for about 12 years, I have been curious about Anting-Anting, Oracion, and the other traditional tribal beliefs of the Filipines & Pacific Islands.

The basic answer that I have gotten from the Filipino masters that I have talked to is "Some use it [Anting-Anting] because they believe it helps them. If that is what they believe, then that is good for them. I personally don't use them."

I guess my point is that I have seen many "westerners" who practice Indonesian of Filipino martial arts get so caught up in psuedo-religion and fantasy that it almost mocks the old tribal spiritual beliefs. If you talk to some of these people in the U.S., they make it sound as if everyone is running around the pacific islands casting spells on each other like in a D&D role playing game. It just isn't like that.

There are also many "Frauds" out there who you could pay a few thousand dollars too. They'll meet you at the airport in the filipines in camoflauge fatigues, take you into the jungle, and have you hit tree's with sticks for a weekend. I'm sure they'll show you all the secret spells too. I'll bet that you'll really feel like you've learned all the secrets of FMA in a weekend too, when the reality is you have just been conned. Next time I need an operation, I'm going to a psychic surgeon for sure!

Here is my American understanding of "the way it is" over there. I compare it to Christians here in the United States. Most people in the United States have Christian Beliefs, but most don't run around with a cross, a rosery, and holy water, reciting prayers every 10 minutes. Sure, we have our extremists here, but most people would consider these people "crazy". I see it being the same over in the Filipines, but just involving a different culture. People in the Filipines aren't running around casting spells all over the place. In fact, I've been told that more people are Catholic then anything else. However, there are "Witch Doctors," and tribal beliefs and "superstitions" that are mixed in with the other prevailing belief systems. Someone in the Filipines may have an Anting-Anting and an Oracion; I have my Saint Micheal pendant and a prayer that I recite if I ever get in trouble. There isn't much of a difference between the two practices, in my opinion.

So, to summerize my ridiculously long and poor-grammered post here is that yes, there are some beliefs and practices in the pacific islands that are unique to the culture. Just don't fantasize about it too much and make it more then what it is, for that would be doing a disservice to the culture that these beliefs came from.

Sorry that I don't have any thoughts on the actual rituals and practices, for I am not from the Philippines. It sounds like Moro-moro has more contributing thoughts on the actual practices and beliefs.

However, These are just my general thoughts on the subject...


PAUL

 

[moromoro]

hi paul

yes some people including some GM dont believe in searching for these "beliefs" GM Abrain for one only believes in perfecting ones skill in eskrima, although he also has witness first hand on him the power of oracion in a fight, he says that for a few seconds he was paralised in one encounter, so some people dont believe in them, i myself believe in a higher power and that there are things in this world we cannot explain....

also yes about 90% of the philippines are catholic, our beliefs in the oracion, anting anting and other supertitions are interwined with the catholic religion we believe in, oracion, anting anting will not work unless you have the belief of the lord, (it is interesting to note that brazil is the largest catholic nation on earth and has similar superticious beliefs with the philippines it is all interwined with the catholic faith).

bottom line is some people believe in it some dont, i personally believe in it i have seen first hand the power when it comes to healing and have heard from family members and teachers the tales of its uses in a fighting context....
thanks

terry.

 

[Cruentus]

Good input...

Although it may have not have seemed like it in my last post, I personally believe in it as well. I definatily believe in a higher power, and that there is more going on spiritually then what is on the surface. I wouldn't doubt that under the right circumstances Anting-Anting and Oracion might work. If I believe in the power of prayer, then it would make sense to me that Oracion would work.

I also enjoyed reading your posts about your grandfather, your culture, etc.

I just think that for as many people that there are out there who are sincere in their beliefs, there are also many frauds out there. This is with any culture. This isn't much unlike some of the televangalists and travelling christian healers who claim to heal people through the Lord, when really they are only there for your donation. And, unfortunatily, there are many gullable people here in the U.S. who fantasize over tribal spiritual beliefs, and who would be very easily conned.

I just think that people should be wary to not get too caught up in fantasy. God helps those who are willing to help themselves, so I am sure that for those whom the Anting-Anting has worked have spent more time dilegently perfecting their eskrima skills then "spell casting." I don't what you've seen in the Philippines, moromoro, but in the states I have actually seen entire groups of martial artists who spend more time with pseudo-spirituality then with actual training. This is a sad mistake, and my post was more of a warning against that kind of behavior then an expression of unbelief towards traditional Filipino spirituality.

 

[lost_tortoise]

Thanks Terry, that's exactly what I was hoping for. In response to the "power of prayer" issue, I am a devout believer. I have seen evidence of the ability to alter existing dynamics through prayer and/or spiritual ritual. Empirical experience is what I need to trust or believe in anything....and in regards to this, I have it. I don't trust easily and I almost never take anything at face value, but I KNOW that there are things that I cannot explain through scientific method or theory....yet. This is great stuff, I hope that we can stimulate more discussion of these aspects of the combat arts.

geoffrey

 

[moromoro]

thanks geoff & paul

yes i love the topic of this thread,

it is one of the lesser known aspects of the martial arts,

id like to see more post

terry

 

[krys]

My Cinco Terros master learned me one orascion. He and my GM gave me some special bahi bastons I should only use in real combat ....


Religious rituals and internal training are also common in the small islands beyond Mindanao. There are lots of local legends on escrimadors-silat peoples there and many peoples believe in it.....

Sounds very bizarre but I experienced some strange things after I first met my silat-escrima G.M., i.e. kept on dreaming of him.....
Same thing happened to one of my friends who met him a few times....

I once met a guy in Mindanao called Victor Cobra, he was doing his healing using snakes.... saw him put his hand one time in a bag full of cobras to take one.... and the snakes still had fangs and venom, we could see it...

I've also experienced some local medecine (jungle plant that stoped a big cut very quickly; once was very sick, drunk snake wine, the next day everything was fine, other snake medecine that helped my mother who had a tumor).



Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.