Animal Planet

[theletch1]

I was just watching one of the shows on Animal Planet about the SPCA police divisions and how they go about their jobs. The episode that I was watching showed the team catching cats in a house. They carted 140 cats out of one house and still had to put out live traps to catch the rest. I can't imagine that many cats in one house. The cats "owner" had some mental problems so there were no criminal charges. The next segment was on dog fighting. The idea of forcing two animals to fight for human enjoyment turns my stomach. Human fighting human of their own free will is fine but making critters do it is low. No, I'm not a "wacko animal rights activist" or what ever the term du jour is but I was raised by people that had a close tie to the land and the animals in it and was taught respect for all creatures.

How do ya'll feel about animal fights, what level of respect do you have for animals (wild and domestic) and what level of responsibility do you feel that a pet owner has to their pets?

 

[arnisador]

My brother-in-law has worked in this regard, both for the SPCA and as part of a city police dept. His area of expertise is chicken fights (filter won't let me use the commonly accepted term for this).

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by theletch1
...They carted 140 cats out of one house and still had to put out live traps to catch the rest. I can't imagine that many cats in one house. The cats "owner" had some mental problems so there were no criminal charges.

There's your answer. There's something distrubing with that many cats.

 

[OULobo]

I think its a virtue to respect all life, but take it in context and reason. I stick to the idea that when God put us here one of the stipulations of being "in charge" was being stewards of the animals and the planet. That's a responibility not taken lightly. However, I'm not boycotting KFC because they grab chickens by the legs or overcrowd the coups. Animals slaughter for food there is no reason humans should stop, just don't do it to excess. Animal rights are a good idea if they are grounded and reasonable in their thought pattern.

On a side note, I think we have a special responsibility to domesticated animals. Wee have taken them out of thier natural lives, and adapted and bred them to live as companions and tools for us. This means we owe them a little more.

 

[Nightingale]

my opinion on eating meat:

"if it gets caught, it deserves to be eaten."

this can be taken two ways, and both are accurate... if an animal is dumb enough to become captured/killed, it deserves what it gets... ie... becoming my lunch.

also, out of respect for the animal, if you kill something, you damn well better be killing for food rather than sport. it is life, and needs to be treated with the respect it deserves as a living creature. I don't see anything wrong with hanging a six point buck's head on your wall, as long as you hung a pot of venison stew over your fire as well. If you want to take from the land, fine, but USE WHAT YOU TAKE.

my opinion on animal fights:

they are cruel and brutal and serve no redeeming purpose whatsoever, and those who condone them are little more than animals themselves.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Nightingale
my opinion on eating meat:

"if it gets caught, it deserves to be eaten."

this can be taken two ways, and both are accurate... if an animal is dumb enough to become captured/killed, it deserves what it gets... ie... becoming my lunch.

So what happens when everybody decides they want tiger burgers and fur or people decide they like sea turtle soup. Its too easy now to kill. Anyone can do it and with little skill, there are very few places to hide and killing methods are that much better now. Whole species have become extinct (or nearly) because its easy to catch most animals. Look at whales. They were almost hunted to extinction and the hunters used every usable part (oil, blubber, meat, baleen, even bones). How can we justify the extinction of a species just because we can and we'll use the remains.

A side note on the same subject:

Sea turtles mate and lay their eggs on the beach. The young then hatch and make a mad dash to the sea. On land they are attacked by birds, dogs, fox or whatever other predator happens to be around for an easy meal. When they reach the ocean they are initially hit by sharks, 'cudas and tarpin. There used to be enough to make the journey and scientists and filmographers refused to help and instead let nature take its course.

Here's my gripe. There are less turtles mating and laying eggs because humans hunt the adults for specialty dinners (along the Baja coast especially). The adults are also dying of exotic tumors that have only been manifesting over the past few decades (leading many to believe because of pollution). Finally, far fewer young are getting into the sea because there are more predators on the beaches (introduced stray dogs kill more turtle young than any other land creature, and sea bird populations have risen due to increased food availability from human garbage and landfills and decreased sea bird predator populations due to pollution). These are all caused, at the root, by man. So if it is our fault that the turtles are dying off, why can we not help the population by literally taking all the hatchlings and putting them directly into the water or by chasing off the predators on hatch nights. Still many areas try to say it is immoral or illegal to help the hatchlings. Think about how easy it would be to get people to show up and help a little turtle to the ocean. You could even make money from ecotourists. Also there would likely be little impact on the environment from more turtles. The main food source is sea vegetation and jellyfish. Pollution levels have rasied the amount of nitrogen in the water and cause increased sea vegetation growth and algal blooms, therefore the amount of plankton (who feed on algea) and finally the amount of jellyfish(who feed on plankton) have risen. I have heard many a fisherman on the ocean talk of how many more jellyfish they see nowas there are few predators of jellyfish beside the sea turtle. So where is the downside to aggressively aiding and reintroducing this creature?

Look ma, I built a soapbox. :soapbox:

 

[liangzhicheng]

OULobo,

You bring up some very good points. However, we can't really know what the effects of helping the turtles out would be. What seems like a good idea at one time, may turn out to be a bad idea in retrospect. Am I saying helping the turtles out is a bad idea? Nope. I think in the end, we all can do is do what we think is right, and hope that it really is the right thing to do. Now...who wants to help some sea turtles out?

 

[Cruentus]

I think that all life is a gift, and we should treat it as such and respect it. Making animals fight for $$ is not respecting life. Keeping pets in unsafe living conditions is not respecting life either. I think we have a duty in our society to respect life; and we do not do it enough.

 

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by OULobo
So what happens when everybody decides they want tiger burgers and fur or people decide they like sea turtle soup. Its too easy now to kill. Anyone can do it and with little skill, there are very few places to hide and killing methods are that much better now. Whole species have become extinct (or nearly) because its easy to catch most animals. Look at whales. They were almost hunted to extinction and the hunters used every usable part (oil, blubber, meat, baleen, even bones). How can we justify the extinction of a species just because we can and we'll use the remains.

I was referring to the common game animals that people hunt, such as deer, elk, moose, etc..., not endangered species. Those are another category alltogether and need to be protected.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Nightingale
I was referring to the common game animals that people hunt, such as deer, elk, moose, etc..., not endangered species. Those are another category alltogether and need to be protected.

Oh, In that case I totally agree. I think that population is the key in game animals. If they are overrunning, then hunt away. Even for fun, but if the numbers are way down. Then leave them be.

 

[theletch1]

Oh, In that case I totally agree. I think that population is the key in game animals. If they are overrunning, then hunt away. Even for fun, but if the numbers are way down. Then leave them be

Overpopulation is the problem we have with white tail deer on the eastern side of the U.S. They are everywhere. We still have folks raise hell about hunting them (even for food) with the old "How can you kill Bambi?" stuff. The quick answer is... 'cause they're yummy. The other answer is that we have already killed off all of their natural predators so they are now so overpopulated that they are starving to death when we have a particularly hard winter. It's hard to explain to a hardcore activist that putting a bullet into the chest cavity of a deer is a lot better than letting them get so overpopulated that the entire species sees a degredation in the gene pool or dies slowly from starvation. These are the same folks that harp on spaying and neutering your pets so that they won't become overpopulated. (My cat is, my Boxer isn't.... he's a gigolo )

 

[Cruentus]

Over-population of white-tails in my state and region is a huge problem; which we (human beings) created. We used to have preditors like wolves, bears, coyotes, etc, but we've killed them off and pushed them out of the region. These preditors used to eat the deer; now without them we are so overpopulated w/ white tails that many of them starve to death as I understand it.

Unfortunatily it is difficult to undo the damage that has been done, but we can help by hunting. So, hunting deer is a good thing in this case, but I still believe we should utilize the entire animal.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by theletch1
Overpopulation is the problem we have with white tail deer on the eastern side of the U.S. They are everywhere. We still have folks raise hell about hunting them (even for food) with the old "How can you kill Bambi?" stuff. The quick answer is... 'cause they're yummy. The other answer is that we have already killed off all of their natural predators so they are now so overpopulated that they are starving to death when we have a particularly hard winter. It's hard to explain to a hardcore activist that putting a bullet into the chest cavity of a deer is a lot better than letting them get so overpopulated that the entire species sees a degredation in the gene pool or dies slowly from starvation. These are the same folks that harp on spaying and neutering your pets so that they won't become overpopulated. (My cat is, my Boxer isn't.... he's a gigolo )

Now there is the issue of Wasting Disease too.

We had a town here in OH that the state said needed to have the deer thinned out, but it was a suburb. So you had all these people picketing in the street. There were people complaining about their gardens and property getting messed up by the deer and people complaining about unsafe roads just about ready to duke it out with people who thought anything short of gassing or lethal injections was inhumane. This is rediculous. If they knew what happens to the animals that are the food in their fridge they wouldn't think some of the hunting methods are that bad. The state offered to have sharp shooters come in for practice and offered to allow privatized hunting, even offered to use "humane" traps that use an air pressure spike fired and retracted from the brain to kill quick and clean, but none of it was enough for the local soccer mom squads.

Originally posted by PAUL
Unfortunatily it is difficult to undo the damage that has been done, but we can help by hunting. So, hunting deer is a good thing in this case, but I still believe we should utilize the entire animal.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate on this one, so please, no one take it peronal, but why should we have to use the carcus if the animal is being killed just to eliminate the excess population. I'm not saying we should be wastful, but if you pick off 10 or 20 head per person as may happen in a legal thinning, what do you do with it all. You can most likely sell some of the meat to private citizens (charities generally have to follow FDA regs for meat served) but I can't see getting rid of all that and you can only sell so many skins too. What else is there, hoofs for chew toys and heads for wall mounts. Mabey you could sell bulk to some pet food factories.

I think when hunting for recreation it is nessecary to utilize the carcus as a moral and logical justification for the kill, but not in thinning. In a thinning the logic is to eliminate the excess population, regardless of the possible uses, if any, of the carcus.

 

[Cruentus]

I understand your point. What I would like to see, I guess, would cause a complete change in our societies way of thinking. It will take a long time, or a great tragidy for this to occur. We have to undo the consumerist mentality that we have been pushing since the industrial revolution.

But an ideal situation would still be to use the entire animal. With all the people and towns out there, how many do you see wearing deer skin? How many restraunts and supermarkets sell Deer meat? Some, but not very much. I think that with a change in our social mentality, we could make using the entire animal work to our advantage.

Why go through the trouble? It is the difference between respecting Life, respecting mother earth (sorry if that sounds cheesy), and respecting Gods (whatever concept you have or don't have of God) gift of life and resources to us, or not.

Right now, our society chooses not. I think that this is wrong. Some may disagree, though. And although I am usually a fighter, and usually up for a good arguement, this subject actually makes me sad....

Peace,

PAUL

 

[MA-Caver]

That man/mankind abused the charge given to us by our creator to watch/ward the animals is a crying shame indeed. Nearly every type of animal on this planet has been hunted for some reason or another for sport or food or the safety of the populations (wolves/bears/etc).
We all know how to live in harmony with nature but that isn't civilized is it? Savages live side by side with animals so sayeth the man stroking the pure-bred persian cat in his lap.
Until people get into their heads that the removal of even the smallest animal from an eco-system affects the largest, the slaughter/abuse will continue.
Whale are still being hunted, wolves re-introduced to yellowstone are still in danger of radical farmers/ranchers desiring to protect their stock, pollution is real and kills thousands of native plant and animal species daily.
I think that this will still continue regardless of the efforts of activists because mankind (as a whole) is out of touch with himself and his place in nature.
Radicals like PETA need to calm down and understand that for every animal we kill for food there's another being born for that purpose. How we do it and the conditions they're kept could be better but not stopped totally just done better.
Animal testing? <shrugs> no comment on that because it's gonna continue regardless of what we do.
NO FUR activists? Ya, that could be tone down as well because people have been doing it for centuries and will CONTINUE to do it no matter what you say or do. Throwing dye or ink or oil on a 1000 dollar fur coat is just stupid. It doesn't help you nor the wearer.
CSN&Y sang: teach your children well and that is what we need to do.

My biggest lament is why couldn't we have learned to domesticate the Bison that roamed in the millions across this country instead of slaughtering them. Sigh

:asian:

 

[Nightingale]

we have domesticated bison.

every summer, I go work on a dinosaur excavation in Wyoming. the site of the dig is on a bison ranch.

dinner almost every night is bison (commonly miscalled Buffalo) burgers or steaks. YUMMY!!!



At the time period you are referring to, I believe, people weren't aware of the dangers of extinction, and thought that there would always be more, so why bother domesticating... they didn't learn until it was almost too late.

 

[Cruentus]

Bison Burgers are yum!!

An unfortunate state of affairs also is that the "activists" often so busy trying to be unique and special that they miss the point, and don't connect with the general public. So the public is turned off from any action to make things better, so the $$ is what makes the decisions in the end.

I advise activists, if there are any here, to start connecting with people more, and coming up with practical solutions rather then "lets all scrap our automobiles and computers and move to the woods in communes." I get fusterated with both sides... :shrug:

 

[Nightingale]

what I do:

1. I'm looking into buying a car that runs on alternate fuel. (dunno if electric is really accomplishing much, because the power plants that produce electricity pollute, but I'm looking into hydrogen or natural gas)

2. recycle. it isn't hard, and you get paid for it.

3. I use public transportation (train) to commute to work. this one's a biggie.... took me from filling up the gas tank three times a week to once every other week... net savings of ten tanks of gas per month! (plus, I don't have to pay to park my car in downtown, so it saves $$$ too!)

4. donate money a few times a year to the WWF (world wildlife fund, not world wrestling federation!) they work for preservation, conservation, and most importantly, EDUCATION!

http://www.worldwildlife.org/support/defaultjoin.cfm?sectionid=52&newspaperid=7

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Nightingale
what I do:

1. I'm looking into buying a car that runs on alternate fuel. (dunno if electric is really accomplishing much, because the power plants that produce electricity pollute, but I'm looking into hydrogen or natural gas)

2. recycle. it isn't hard, and you get paid for it.

3. I use public transportation (train) to commute to work. this one's a biggie.... took me from filling up the gas tank three times a week to once every other week... net savings of ten tanks of gas per month! (plus, I don't have to pay to park my car in downtown, so it saves $$$ too!)

4. donate money a few times a year to the WWF (world wildlife fund, not world wrestling federation!) they work for preservation, conservation, and most importantly, EDUCATION!

http://www.worldwildlife.org/support/defaultjoin.cfm?sectionid=52&newspaperid=7

Great job! Alot of people think about it, but don't "do" anything. It is great to see possitive action, which I think is most important!

 

[TallAdam85]

yea i don't watch this show much is it any good i seen it parts of it at the er weighting room