Aikido Belt System
- Thread starter Buddha1
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From my experience, I have only seen schools that have a white belt and a Black Belt. It was explained that unless you are a BB, it doesn't really matter. All the under belts are on the same level, which is trying to "get" the basics. The BB shows that you understand the basics. Plus, it takes the ego out of the students.
MartialIntent
Black Belt
Hi Buddha1 and welcome to MT, good to have you here - and certainly don't apologize for asking questions that's what makes this here place tick!Buddha1 said:
Yes as HS has said, some clubs and schools only use the five or six kyus of white belt and then black. Similarly some organizations do not wear hakama [mine doesn't] some wear hakama from day one and some only permit hakama for shodan and above - your mileage will vary depending upon where you train.
Some more advanced Aikidoka from clubs and schools which *do* use colored belts will switch back to wearing their white belt when visiting other dojos or seminars simply as a mark of respect for an organization in which they hold no grade.
I'm not certain I've got knowledge of any formal procedures for what you're describing but I'd be interested to know what you find out!! Though I've trained with many who have relinquished their rightful color within their organization after returning from a training break. This again can be seen as a mark of respect but also simply because they're being honest with themselves regarding their current level of proficiency. Though as I say, I'd be interested to see any responses indicating that there is such a thing as a formal change of belts or rank within Aikido...
But if there's a lesson or moral, it's *never* trust an Aikido white belt - he or she may have 17 years of experience underneath it! Hehe.
Respects!
OP
Buddha1
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Thank you very much Samurai69 for your welcome and detailed response.
I think it's interesting Aikido lacks the belt system most other martial arts have. Personally I'd rather there was a colour-coded belt system, not for ego reasons but to help me gauge my progress.
I think it's interesting Aikido lacks the belt system most other martial arts have. Personally I'd rather there was a colour-coded belt system, not for ego reasons but to help me gauge my progress.
Buddha1 said:
My friend here in portugal studies aikikai aikido and they have a belt system, but it does seem to me that there seems then, to be a certain amount of belt chasing, rather than just studying the art
Greetings and Welcome to MT.
My father-in-law studies aikido and in his association, they maintain white, brown and black for belts. I don't think that they wear the belts under black, just hakama and keikogi (but anyone in an ASU - Aikido Schools of Ueshiba can speak up and correct me). I haven't been to his class yet, so I only speak from what I remember of his pictures that I have seen.
Personally, I teach karate but only wear my black belt when I'm teaching. When I'm training solo wearing a karategi, I usually have my white belt on.
my two cents...
My father-in-law studies aikido and in his association, they maintain white, brown and black for belts. I don't think that they wear the belts under black, just hakama and keikogi (but anyone in an ASU - Aikido Schools of Ueshiba can speak up and correct me). I haven't been to his class yet, so I only speak from what I remember of his pictures that I have seen.
Personally, I teach karate but only wear my black belt when I'm teaching. When I'm training solo wearing a karategi, I usually have my white belt on.
my two cents...
If I understand things correctly the colored belt system is a western invention. Our mindset sorta requires that we have incremental goals to chase after. As corny as it sounds...it's the journey not the destination that matters most to me.
On a related note...why are there different requirements for the hakama in some styles for men and women?
On a related note...why are there different requirements for the hakama in some styles for men and women?
I just started taking Aikido (Aikikai) this week. There are 5 kyu before shodan, but no colored belts. Everyone wears a white belt until shodan. Shodan (and above) wear a black belt and a dark blue or black hakama. From what I understand, there aren't any colored belts in a "real" Aikido school. One of the students said to me that if I ever come across an Aikido school with colored belts, run away! I actually like the fact that there aren't any colored belts in Aikido. It helps to keep everyone humble.
Personally, I'm grateful that I don't have to wear a hakama as a beginning student. I already wear a hakama for my YSKR classes. I don't have a problem wearing a hakama (helps hold the swords in place), but it often gets in the way when I'm trying to shiko backwards. That or I just need to get better at shiko.
Edited to add: Buddha...I just noticed that you recently joined MT. How about posting an intro thread in the Meet and Greet forum?
Personally, I'm grateful that I don't have to wear a hakama as a beginning student. I already wear a hakama for my YSKR classes. I don't have a problem wearing a hakama (helps hold the swords in place), but it often gets in the way when I'm trying to shiko backwards. That or I just need to get better at shiko.
Edited to add: Buddha...I just noticed that you recently joined MT. How about posting an intro thread in the Meet and Greet forum?
Let's see...it's been five days, and I'm already thoroughly confused. I seem to be picking up the bokken and jo work a bit faster (no surprise there - lol), but my left hand is noticably weaker than my right. I can do front rolls half-decently (we've been doing them in my YSKR classes lately), but my back rolls really suck. I'm trying to get used to the Aikido stance, which places most of the weight on the front leg. I'm used to using a back stance (from my TKD days) or a forward stance (from YSKR). I've been getting confused with the foot switches in some of the takedowns, and I've also been eating the mat an awful lot. Oh yeah, the Japanese terms for everything is also adding to the confusion. But it's been a lot of fun so far.
I seem to be picking up the bokken and jo work a bit faster (no surprise there - lol), but my left hand is noticably weaker than my right. I can do front rolls half-decently (we've been doing them in my YSKR classes lately), but my back rolls really suck. I'm trying to get used to the Aikido stance, which places most of the weight on the front leg. I'm used to using a back stance (from my TKD days) or a forward stance (from YSKR). I've been getting confused with the foot switches in some of the takedowns, and I've also been eating the mat an awful lot. Oh yeah, the Japanese terms for everything is also adding to the confusion. But it's been a lot of fun so far. 
Aikido is really cool. I have seen a few classes, never have I participated in one. However, my understanding from the folks here in St. Louis is that it is either white then black or white, brown then black. I have along with TKD_Girl have also heard that once upon a time it was everyone, all arts followed the white and black system. I heard one Korean say that the only reason that belt color was put into play was to keep westerners happy.
Hmmmm? I don't know, any thoughts? I agree it is the journey not the destination. However, with the cirriculums and systems now that have adapted to the belt color grading would it not be hard, let's say if you leave one Tae Kwon Do school and go to another for the instructor to judge where you fit into class? That is why the forms are set up in the order they are etc.
Nice to hear what everyone else is doing.
Hmmmm? I don't know, any thoughts? I agree it is the journey not the destination. However, with the cirriculums and systems now that have adapted to the belt color grading would it not be hard, let's say if you leave one Tae Kwon Do school and go to another for the instructor to judge where you fit into class? That is why the forms are set up in the order they are etc.
Nice to hear what everyone else is doing.
OP
Buddha1
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I spoke to my Sensei today and he said if I pass my first grading I receive a Kyu Shin do Badge, then for the following gradings it's the usual belt system as in karate - yellow, orange etc.
The ranking system appears to be a much longer process than that of karate, which I have also trained in. I need a minimum of 36 logged training hours just to get the badge!
The ranking system appears to be a much longer process than that of karate, which I have also trained in. I need a minimum of 36 logged training hours just to get the badge!
My sensei once told me that the colored belt system is more for the sake of the instructors than the students. If a visiting instructor walks into the school he should be able to figure out what parts of the curriculum you should already know based upon what color your belt is and adjust his teaching to your level.
shiho
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I belong to an ASU dojo and we have 6th thru 4th kyu white belt, when you are 3rd kyu to first you're brown and naturaly shodon is black. we can wear a hakama whenever. I waited till I passed my 6th kyu before wearing one. Its not whats on the outside that counts anyway.
FWIW the Belt Kyu/Dan system was orginated by Jigaro Kano, waay back when. As you can see the belts vary by organization and by dojo. Most USAF go by a 5 kyu system, predominately white than black belt and hakama. I have seen some go white, 2 Blues, 2 Browns, Black Belt/Hakama. ASU has a 6 kyu system which is 3 whites, 3 browns, Black. The official ASU policy is Hakama at first ranking, i.e. when you pass your first test. Although some dojo will hold you depending upon ukemi skills. AAA, AWA dojo have the 6 kyu system but with white, yellow, orange, blue, brown, Black/Hakama. Hombu dojo in Japan goes with a 5kyu, white belt, black/Hakama EXCEPT for women who are allowed to wear a hakama at sankyu. The rationale as explained by some other posters is at large venues i.e. seminars, camps. that an instructor or senior person can guage somewhat appropriate ukemi level by the colored belt. This is not a fail safe technique but one that is often used. Or perhaps can gear the class teaching to the appropriate group level.
As Aikironin wrote, the belt system was invented by Jiojoro Kano, the Judo founder and has later been adopted by most other systems.
I dislike this type of comments. When I hear statements such as you quates, I know it is associated to the approach of "ours is better" without thought.
Each teacher adjust his methodology to the students, belts are just a means to be used by a good teacher in accordance with his students age, maturity and desires. For example, my teacher used to hold two Kyu ranking tests, on for ~5kyu after which we remained with the white belt and the other for 1Kyu, "earning" a brown belt and then the Dan grading starts ... A while later, he decided given most of his students are adults, the 5kyu test is not beneficial and canceled it. A few years later, one of his students, started teaching, so he asked my teacher how should the ranking be done (my teacher tests his students), and was told he should decide if he wishes for more mid-ranks or not (in the end, he decided on having the additional test since most of his students were teen-agers).
The belts and ranking system should not be important criteria for evaluating a teacher, so long as they are not abused. Knowledge and deep understanding are important, transmission is important, personal ability is valued. Rank and belts are much less important !!!
Amir
[email protected]
Yellow Belt
The coloured belt system in Aikido is not new. It is in fact a very old system which was introduced to the United Kingdom in 1955 by Kenshiro Abbe Sensie.
6th Kyu = White belt - 5th Kyu = Yellow belt - 4th Kyu = Orange belt - 3rd Kyu = Green belt - 2nd Kyu = Blue belt - 1st Kyu = Brown belt - 1st dan = Black. Only dan grades both men and women would wear an Hakama. The original idea of the above colours is that each colour from white to brown can be dyed to the next colour, of course in this modern age I doubt anyone would do that.
As for the idiot instructor who suggested that you should run a mile from a school with coloured belts, I would suggest you run towards such a school as the chances are that school is possibly a traditional school. My schools both in the UK and the USA still continue with the coloured belt system as I have for the past 50 years.
Henry Ellis
Co-author of Positive Aikido
6th Kyu = White belt - 5th Kyu = Yellow belt - 4th Kyu = Orange belt - 3rd Kyu = Green belt - 2nd Kyu = Blue belt - 1st Kyu = Brown belt - 1st dan = Black. Only dan grades both men and women would wear an Hakama. The original idea of the above colours is that each colour from white to brown can be dyed to the next colour, of course in this modern age I doubt anyone would do that.
As for the idiot instructor who suggested that you should run a mile from a school with coloured belts, I would suggest you run towards such a school as the chances are that school is possibly a traditional school. My schools both in the UK and the USA still continue with the coloured belt system as I have for the past 50 years.
Henry Ellis
Co-author of Positive Aikido
KOROHO
Green Belt
There can be a number of reasons I suppose.
In one school where I trained, even the black belt students put a white belt on for the basics class. It's just a reminder, I suppose, that we don't know it all and to try and remain humble.
Putting the white belt back on from time to time is a good idea. I still do myself when I go back to see my teacher.
The color belts never have been the center of focus in Aikido, like in competetivie sports like Karate and Judo. Most schools that I know of only use white and black.
KOROHO
Green Belt
"FWIW the Belt Kyu/Dan system was orginated by Jigaro Kano, waay back when."
Yes, but he did not use colored belts. He used white and black.
From what I understand, the idea of different colors was introduced by karate teachers in Europe in order to help organize tournaments and group competitors by skill level. But with no standardization of kyu/color even that is not possible. 5th Kyu is green some places, blue others.
The sad thing is that I often have people coming from other schools and say thier a "green belt" and want to know if I will recognize that or do they have to start over. I ask them what Kyu grade they have and they don't know.
They only know colors and aren't exposed to the idea that different schools use different colors.
Yes, but he did not use colored belts. He used white and black.
From what I understand, the idea of different colors was introduced by karate teachers in Europe in order to help organize tournaments and group competitors by skill level. But with no standardization of kyu/color even that is not possible. 5th Kyu is green some places, blue others.
The sad thing is that I often have people coming from other schools and say thier a "green belt" and want to know if I will recognize that or do they have to start over. I ask them what Kyu grade they have and they don't know.
They only know colors and aren't exposed to the idea that different schools use different colors.
