There’s exactly the the same situation between medical and science students. The medical students just want to know that, say, insulin can reduce dangerously high blood potassium levels but aren’t bothered about the mechanisms, whereas the biomedical students want to know how.
Tradition is forward thinking as well.
I don't think Bruce Lee really understood martial arts as much as we give him credit for. I think much of his take on Martial Arts was based on his Chinese culture and that more than anything was his real beef. People hold Bruce Lee up as if his wisdom about Martial Arts was something new.
Yep but a lot of things in Modern medicine is looping back to things that Traditional Medicine was well aware of.
I think I see where you're coming from with this, but what you're talking about is taking a different tangent from a tradition. Your point about the bow I think is more about historical usage, rather than tradition, though they are linked there: a traditional bowman would likely prefer something like an English longbow.Tradition is forward thinking as well.
I will use a couple of examples to show this. The Assumption that that Tradition means you are locked into something is in correct.
Jow Ga Kung Fu - Was created by blending techniques from 3 different traditional fighting systems. If Tradition means that someone is "locked into a system" then it would be impossible for Jow Ga Kung Fu to be created. By your definition Hung ga, Choy Ga, and Northern Shaolin should be "locked" and not blended.
Here are some other traditions that are forward looking Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Halloween. People are always finding new ways to celebrate these traditions. Mardi Gras and 4th of July are also traditions. These traditions have also changed over the years. For some Super Bowl Sunday is a tradition.
Traditional Bo hunting's evolution. Why hunt with a bow when you can hunt with a gun?
Traditional Auto racing Nascar
Baseball is a traditional sport, same as basketball.
All these things are traditional, but they are not "locked" as you suggest. If Traditional means that someone is locked into a system, then there would never be different types of Kung fu systems out there or different types of Karate systems out there.
I don't think Bruce Lee really understood martial arts as much as we give him credit for. I think much of his take on Martial Arts was based on his Chinese culture and that more than anything was his real beef. People hold Bruce Lee up as if his wisdom about Martial Arts was something new.
Jow Ga Kung Fu was created in 1910 and blended different fighting systems. The founder took what he liked from 3 systems and blended it together to create a new Hybrid fighting system. Like many other martial artists of his time, he studied more than one martial art system. This was long before Bruce Lee was born, and the Founder of Jow Ga was not the first person to blend different martial arts system.
So when people start talking about "Bruce Lee" Wisdom, there were a lot of Traditional Martial Artists out that combined other systems into their own and in some cases, created brand new systems.
I think Bruce Lee's problem was simply that he didn't like how Wing Chun was doing things, and he didn't like Traditional Chinese Culture and he thought that was out of date. If anything, I bet his desire to learn from other systems came from a forward thinking Traditional Martial Artist. Since many of those traditional Martial Artist would have studied more than one more martial arts.
Similar to how many Traditional Martial Arts on Martial Talk have studied more than one Martial art. That seems very forward thinking to me.
With medicine, a lot of this was about evidence. Much of traditional healing wasn't evidence-based, and didn't hold up under clinical scrutiny. Since other areas of medicine were providing predictable pathways to solving problems, those were followed. Over time, as we learned more, it was easier to determine which parts of traditional medicine were likley to be effective, so they could be tested properly - providing evidence. Had they held to those traditional methods initially, they'd have had to give a miss to the branches that were providing more answers (time and resources being finite).
Equipment has always improved in the traditional world. I can guarantee the wooden bats used today are better than the wooden bats used 50 years ago. Here we see the forward thinking of traditional bat making. The reason I say traditional is because the, they still use manual methods of selecting the bats. But they also use modern methods as well.
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Yet they still change. The longest traditions our there would probably be Religion and tattoos and even those have changed. Just look at how many branches of the same religion there are all of which claim to be same.
This a tenuous suggestion. 99% of traditional medicine is of no therapeutic value beyond placebo and the claimed traditional mechanisms of effect for those that do, are ‘monkey kaka.’
"Around 40% of pharmaceutical products today draw from nature and traditional knowledge, including landmark drugs: aspirin, artemisinin, and childhood cancer treatments. A closer look at these drugs reveals that the scientists behind them built off traditional knowledge to achieve their breakthrough discoveries." - Source - Traditional medicine has a long history of contributing to conventional medicine and continues to hold promise
‘Draw’ is the operative word. These natural substances have had to be refined/concentrated/purified etc in order to have a consistent, therapeutic effect. They often require novel routes of administration.
OH and of course, don't know how I forgot, but the concept of Shu-Ha-Ri plays a huge role in traditional martial arts (that is for those teachers who follow and encourage it).No not controversial at all Steve. It's a very good point, and something to ponder, especially as we all may practice from a certain tradition.
I hear Russ Smith speak on this quite a bit (practioner and teacher of a few arts), and I like his take on it. Says that tradition is a launching point, and isn't about worshipping the ashes, but tending to the flame. Using tradition as your foundation and as a springboard to development, learning and evolution.
"Rather than understanding their relationship with a living tradition, many abandon tradition altogether...
Part of the reason for this over-correction is that so many see tradition as a limitation on what they are allowed to do, rather than a launching point for growth.
Tradition, for many, is interpreted in a way that is too stifling, inhibiting growth, learning, and free expression.
It doesn't have to be that way."
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And a bit longer vid on tradition:
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The U.S. military has traditions. Unfortunately, most have been stripped away over the last decade.
I sincerely worry about the state of our military. God help us if/when conscription starts up again.
Unfortunately, conscription is the current talk around D.C. The core job in the Army was 40,000 recruits short last year. I hope the situation turns around soon. Sorry for the thread derailment. Please ignore my ramblings and carry on.
Again, I think you're confusing "traditional" and "historic" or even "past". I think we should only consider it "traditional" if it held its place for a long time, or has been retained and become a tradition. It's a nuanced difference, for sure. I know of nobody who looks back wistfully at the "traditional soccer cleat".Equipment has always improved in the traditional world. I can guarantee the wooden bats used today are better than the wooden bats used 50 years ago. Here we see the forward thinking of traditional bat making. The reason I say traditional is because the, they still use manual methods of selecting the bats. But they also use modern methods as well.
The baseball cleat is the traditional shoe of baseball, right? They didn't get a basketball shoe and applied it to baseball. They didn't get a sprinter's shoe or a soccer shoe. The evolution to the baseball cleat is from the traditional baseball shoe. It did not stay the same as the original. Most Traditional stuff doesn't remain the same. It evolves.
Traditional violin evolution. I remember when coolness didn't hang out with Violin players.
Traditional instruments doing new stuff. I bet they have the classical skills as well.
I think people incorrectly think of tradition as something that doesn't change and everything I see about tradition says that it changes.
Traditional Bungee Jumping
Modern Bungee jumping one day this will be considered traditional.
Probably too late
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Traditional Lion dance. Drum beat sounds very familiar to Jow Ga Lion Dance
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Modern lion dance that still has some traditional elements.
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This doesn't matter. There are different processes for the administration of any medicine modern or traditional but it doesn't change the nature of what the medicine. You cannot inject a pill. If you want to inject the same medicine then you have to change it. But it's the same medicine.
I do. Answer this. What is the traditional type of soccer shoe? Keep in mind indoor soccer shoes are modern in comparison and didn't exist until indoor soccer came along.
You are an example of how tradition changes. Get enough people to follow you and you way will become traditional if others pass your way down through generations.
I don't know anyone who teaches exactly the same way that we were taught. Unless they aren't using the systems combat function. If you are actually using Martial Arts then you would include improvements in your teaching. The way that I teach Jow Ga application is not how other schools teach it. In my own training I figured out how to learn it better than how I was taught. Some things I would teach as I was taught but other things I wouldn't.
Except that my changes aren't traditional. Frankly, they never will be - they were divergences from the tradition, and never gained enough foothold to last to become a tradition, in any sense of the word. So I didn't change tradition. I varied from it.
I know people who pride themselves on attempting to do exactly that. Some of them came from others who also attempted to do exactly that. They want to teach the art as it was taught by someone in the past (the founder, the person who introduced it to the country, etc.).
That would be me. I do not feel I am authorized to change anything about the art I study, nor do I think I have any special insights or wisdom that would urge me to do so. We fortunately still have some living first-generation students of the founder who can tell us quite precisely what was taught to them, and we have video of the founder for some things. It's fairly easy to refer to the based documents, first-gen students, and videos of the founder when in doubt. "I think the founder did this wrong" is not something that would ever enter my head.
