A Revisit to USSD

Gufbal1982

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how is that stupid? I was asking a simple question so I could compare and contrast what the different studios charge for belt tests, what's wrong with that?

It's not...I think he was referring to 14 kempo getting a warning...
 

Gufbal1982

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Now, I have never administerred a bb test, but have done lower ranking tests. How long of a test do you think is appropriate and how long do you think that person should hold the rank for before testing again?
 

Jdokan

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Now, I have never administerred a bb test, but have done lower ranking tests. How long of a test do you think is appropriate and how long do you think that person should hold the rank for before testing again?
Test tiime should be in my opinion based upon how long it would take the instructor to review all the material that they require to attain Black. My Shodan was 6 hours...started at 9:00a went to 3:00p. BUT there was hazing and tomfoolery that abounded....Was that time well spent?? Well it makes for "nice stories" to pass on. I have run many BB tests over the years. I feel 2-3 hrs is more than adequate, considering I typically see them every week...Now that I have moved out and provide personal training (not commercial) I believe I will try something I haven't been part of in the past..(I would like opinions on this please)Testing without advanced knowledge...My classes run 2 hrs a night, 2 nights a week. I have gone back to basics with training requirements....WhatI needed is what they will need. 20 of everything: combinations 1-20, 20 clubs, 20 knives, 20 ju-jitsu's. 1-6 kata, 1-5 pinan. I think I will make them wait for the Crane...I got it at green and reflecting back never appreciated what it contains.... To answer the previous question of cost??? My Shodan was $100 in 1978 my last test was $300 ( though I know some paid $500 that night) 2 yrs ago that was for my 6th...I plan to not charge for "MY TIME"....Am I breaking too many rules? Don't really care...My plan is to provide simple, quality training...I charge less than $4.00 p.h. for semi-private (2 students to a private) that's less than I paid over 30yrs ago....I hope to keep my classes to less than 6 or 8 people ( right now there are 3). I guess it would be nice to have 30 people in a class, those were always fun...you could run really neat gauntlets with bigger numbers....BUT I think sometimes the students don't get the attention that is deserved...
With regards to time & rank...again a judgement call..considering that time between ranks really means improvements and typically improvements come with "time" in the art. Define time...If you're in the dojo busting your hump 4 nights a week 2 to 3 hrs a night I' say you should make black in 2 yrs...at that same pace...nidan another 2 yrs, sandan 3 years later, Yondan in another 4-5 yrs. etc...Now again that is hingent upon how much material is neccessary for each rank....I came out of the USSD days in the mid 70's from the Peabody, MA school. I know other schools had more material than me in some cases...Example I have combinations 1-45, my last form was circle of the tiger, of course numerous kenpo punch techiniques, etc...
WOW!!! Now I know what my wife means....."too much info"..sorry, BUT I am passionate about this art....
Peace!
 

marlon

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If you are ready and willing to turn away students your price structure is great. However, if your school grows so do costs. I got caught that way and have considered closing my school several times. the truth is there needs to be a balance btwn charging what your worth and being fair with your students. But trust me loosing a quality instructor b/c of lack of money is not good for anyone nor the kempo community. I kow most feel that charging money is somehow selling the art or selling out. But the reality is loosing instructors because of lack of money is bad also. I do not have a perfect solution only my experience trying to do it without considering money has made things very difficult...and yes i have a full time job and a wife and children who all want and deserve time and attention and also students who want and deserve timea and attention and my own training that deserves time and attention. Money is in all of those equations. Gouging sucks and selling rank is ridiculous (the last test i gave someone suggested that if i did not pass a certain student then i might loose them...my reply was i would close the doors forever before i gave an undesreved belt), so where does one balance things..if your job does not bring in huge amounts of money.

my 2 cents
Marlon
 

Jdokan

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Thanks Marlon..Appreciate the input....
Let me explain my instruction so as not to misinterpret things.....I started a barn for my daughter to get horses (changed her mind for now) while I was at it I decided to "go up"...(the footpring is 20' x 30') I added a second for my personal training area hoping I could entice one of my training partners to join me...
We get together 2 nights a week. My son wanted to continue his training but didn't want to go back to his Dojo so we started 2 nights a week. Then a couple of his friends wanted lessons....
WIth regards to charges...you are so right....you need to cover costs or the school will close, in my case I have an advantage. I think the best business model is to have somebody at the desk non-training as a business mgr (I'm horrible..Igive away the store) then the instructor out back.....I have heard those schools following that have done better...I don't know could be a load of hogwash....Reading some posts it is apparent that there are several schools out there that aren't having problems getting money....If the student is getting a good deal or thinks they're getting a good deal I guess that's fine...
Rambling sorry....
Again...appreciate the comments....
 

Jdokan

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I just had a black belt test, and promoted 2 people to black belt. Their fee? Pizza and beer for the 9 black belts on the testing board.
They paid their monthly fees, and gave me 5 years of loyalty and hard work.
Power to you!!!!
I have felt that way for years....
 

shaolin ninja 4

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Test tiime should be in my opinion based upon how long it would take the instructor to review all the material that they require to attain Black. My Shodan was 6 hours...started at 9:00a went to 3:00p. BUT there was hazing and tomfoolery that abounded....Was that time well spent?? Well it makes for "nice stories" to pass on. I have run many BB tests over the years. I feel 2-3 hrs is more than adequate, considering I typically see them every week...Now that I have moved out and provide personal training (not commercial) I believe I will try something I haven't been part of in the past..(I would like opinions on this please)Testing without advanced knowledge...My classes run 2 hrs a night, 2 nights a week. I have gone back to basics with training requirements....WhatI needed is what they will need. 20 of everything: combinations 1-20, 20 clubs, 20 knives, 20 ju-jitsu's. 1-6 kata, 1-5 pinan. I think I will make them wait for the Crane...I got it at green and reflecting back never appreciated what it contains.... To answer the previous question of cost??? My Shodan was $100 in 1978 my last test was $300 ( though I know some paid $500 that night) 2 yrs ago that was for my 6th...I plan to not charge for "MY TIME"....Am I breaking too many rules? Don't really care...My plan is to provide simple, quality training...I charge less than $4.00 p.h. for semi-private (2 students to a private) that's less than I paid over 30yrs ago....I hope to keep my classes to less than 6 or 8 people ( right now there are 3). I guess it would be nice to have 30 people in a class, those were always fun...you could run really neat gauntlets with bigger numbers....BUT I think sometimes the students don't get the attention that is deserved...
With regards to time & rank...again a judgement call..considering that time between ranks really means improvements and typically improvements come with "time" in the art. Define time...If you're in the dojo busting your hump 4 nights a week 2 to 3 hrs a night I' say you should make black in 2 yrs...at that same pace...nidan another 2 yrs, sandan 3 years later, Yondan in another 4-5 yrs. etc...Now again that is hingent upon how much material is neccessary for each rank....I came out of the USSD days in the mid 70's from the Peabody, MA school. I know other schools had more material than me in some cases...Example I have combinations 1-45, my last form was circle of the tiger, of course numerous kenpo punch techiniques, etc...
WOW!!! Now I know what my wife means....."too much info"..sorry, BUT I am passionate about this art....
Peace!


How long were with Villaris? Why did you leave them or are you still with them? What was your black belt test like? What was your 6th dan test like?
 

Jdokan

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I was with VIllari unitl the Organization broke apart...
My BB test was hell 6 hours of hazing, physical abuse and of course ALL your material....It was a good test ( I think) testing emotional, physical and spiritual parameters.....My 6th was 3 hours..technique and fighting that was it no hazing, etc.....just the material over and over and A LOT of fighting......
 

LawDog

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When an orgainzation does not know how to properly evaluate the various rankings within a test their instructors will usually resort to giving just plain ole beatings.
I believe that , for impacting type systems, endurance should be included within the basics portion of the test.
 

alxnazario

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I am currently a USSD student. I am curious about your dealings with USSD. Currently I have been approached to teach but was told that is would cost me "x" amount to learn to teach. Is this common in other styles or schools. I took 2 years of Ed Parker's Kempo in NYC and I never heard of this before. When I ask friends who have taken different styles I get various opinions. I am searching for wisdom on this matter. Thanks.
 

Hand Sword

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Well...considering that everyone (or mostly) pays for instruction through the years, then ends up teaching, you end up "paying to be a teacher" anyway. However, as for the question as you put it....I am now hearing it more and more with organizations. It never used to be apart of things (or as much).
 

alxnazario

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I have to say I am happy with my USSD school of choice on the east coast. Yes, the prices are high, but my instructor is an excellent teacher and the students are really good & the atmosphere is very conducive to learning. I hope that does not change.
 

alxnazario

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Thank you...much appreicated. I do have a concern though and it's regarding paying to learn to teach. Does any system charge a student to learn how to teach?
 

Hand Sword

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As I've said, it's more and more so now, and getting even more than that. I see teacher programs all over the place. You are right to feel the way you do. It comes down to really knowing the material, and executing it that way. That's where your focus should be. And that can take any amount of time, and should NOT be rushed, or have a time frame on it. Everyone grows at their own rate. As a consumer, don't be afraid to find another school.
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alxnazario

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Thanks...I am not afraid of finding another school. While I agree Karate is becoming more commercialized. I do enjoy what I have learned to date. And I know I shouldn't compare schools or styles but....when I was studing under an Ed Parker School, it took me two years to even think orange, which was fine to me. To progress there we only took group classes as far as I can remember while USSD offers private as well as group classes.

Here @ USSD I am already a purple belt in under one year, granted I learn fewer forms (not sure if that is a good or bad thing yet).

I noticed that while the same can be said of many students in my particular school I can honestly say these students are way better technically to other schools I have seen in different styles and even is USSD.

I guess I am at a cross roads and want to make sure that is USSD is charging to teach are other styles schools doing the same.
 

Hand Sword

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Yeah, it is becoming the norm with some styles. Others will catch on eventually. Same with contracts, bill fees taken from credit card accounts etc.. There was a time that was new too, now pretty common. Same for these programs too. If your happy, that's all that counts. Especially, if you want to teach for them, or teach eventually.
 
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