A funny thing happened at TKD Class tonight...

[Tkang_TKD]

Hello All,

Kind of a strange thing happened to me tonight at my TKD class. The scenario basically was that I had a 7 year old child (senior to me in belt rank) try to correct my conduct in class.

I was watching other students peform a 3 kick combo, so that I could study the footwork before doing several reps of the combo myself. But anyway, this 7 year old (I'm 34), decided to tell me that I should be facing the front. He said this in a real snotty tone as if he had the absolute right.

Funny thing is that this kid constantly plays around in class when our KJN is not looking, and spends more time admiring himself in the mirrors than he does training.

I basically told him to mind his own business. It gets better from their. This 7 year old goes whining to his dad after class, and his dad comes into the dojang and basically threatens to kick my butt. Now, this is one of those kinds of parents that drops their kid off at the dojang, and has no idea how their child acts in class...But I digress...

I raised my voice at him at that point and my KJN asked as to what happened, and asked me what I said, so I told him. No big deal. We got it straightened out. Then as my parting shot in the situation, I appologized to the parent for getting upbrupt with them. It kind of made them feel like an idiot.

I guess my question is, how many of you would have also told the child to mind their own business, knowing how they conduct themselves in class and taking into account the attitude that they presented?

And also, would any of you actually taken the criticism of a 7 year old child in the first place, irregardless of their belt ranking?


Any and all opinions and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks a bunch.

Sincerely,

Thomas Kangas

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I saw the same thing about twenty six years ago. The kid was eight or nine, a red belt, and started telling everyone junior him in rank but older than him that they had to call him "sir".

I believe somebody pulled him to the side and told him to can the power trip.

We haven't seen any kids in my school pull that sort of thing lately. Were it to happen, we'd snap down on it pretty quickly...and probably have a good laugh about it. If a Dad threatened to kick the butt of one of my students, though, that might be a different matter. I'd be asking a LOT of questions of all concerned.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Maybe I went about it the wrong way, but the kid was basically power tripping. I can't take him too seriously because my 7 year old sun routinely schools this kid (who weighs 30 lbs more than my son) sparring.

The kid is spoiled rotten and it's propagated by the fathers lack of discipline. Anyhow, I didn't take the threat too seriously. It was more of an empty threat. The dad is about 10 years older than me, out of shape, and weighs probably 70-80 lbs lighter than me. I stand in at 6'0" 230 lbs myself, and I'm definitely not out of shape

My KJN did diffuse the situation pretty quickly though. Even though he told me that I shouldn't have told the kid off. I can see his point, but as a senior student I feel that it is my responsiblility to instill discipline in the children, especially those who should be the role models in the Dojang.

Sincerely,
Thomas Kangas

P.S. Hardhead, are you current or ex-Marine? Just asking. I'm 15 years as a Sailor.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

LOL... sun=son.

 

[Disco]

Ah!...... You have encountered one of the maladies of the dreaded MacDojo. Sorry, but 7 year olds, with attitudes and ranking lend itself to this conclusion. It was understandable to tell the kid to go fly a kite. Just consider it lessons learned. Next time it would be just easier to totally ignore the little darling :whip: and then the additional family confrontation can also be avoided :ultracool

Just out of curiosity, who was in charge of the class at the time this took place? If the KJN had to be informed of what happened, then that means he/she was not on the deck teaching. Another bad sign in my opinion. :asian:

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Disco,

KJN was at the back of the class teaching some junior belts the kick combination. He didn't see any of what went on because the whole thing was basically conducted in whispers until after the class. I informed him what had gone on and even told him that I pretty much lost my cool.

The other person who did see it, was my wife, who is a 1st DAN. But in her case, it wouldn't have helped to explain it to the father, as she was my wife, and it would obviously look like her side of the story would be biased.

We definitely aren't the McDojo Type. I can personally attest to that, because I got thrown out of class for a month and a half because I had a really bad attitude. I've also been denied opportunities to test based on not having skills mastered to the KJN's expections in time for testing.

I had half a mind to tell the dad that if he had taught is child discipline, I wouldn't have to. LOL This particular father at one point even had the audacity to tell our Grand Master (8th DAN Kukkiwon) that he wasn't qualified to teach.

 

[bignick]

never had this problem because the only time i'm in a kids class i'm helping instruct...so when the master instructor says, "Nick, show them how to do this..." or "Take them through this drill...". they don't really question...i wouldn't think too much about it...first off...he's only 7, sometimes it true...kids will be kids no matter what you try to do...

i have another question, though...is it common for children and adults to be in the same class at your school?

just curious...

 

[Rob Broad]

Children are Junior ranks! A junior Black belt does not have th right to tell and adult of any rank what they should be doing. this is one of the reasons Childrenand adults should not be training together. And with this type of attitude from the kid he should not be higher than yellow belt, if he is spending more time goofing off and playing in the mirror. Your instructor might need to pay a little more attention to this kid before it gets out of hand.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Bignick,

The only day that children are in class with the adults is Thursday nights for the advanced students (6th gup to 1st DAN).

Usually the kids have their own class times that preceed the adult class. Makes my 5 days of training a week interesting. I get off work, and spend the rest of the day at the Dojang, since I have both my children in class, and my wife and I are in the adult classes.

Sincerely,
Thomas Kangas

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Rob Broad,

Thank you for your comment, and I agree. My instructor usually does catch the kids when they play, and again it's in a different environment. I think he tends to assume that our students will conduct themselves at their ranking (He has no kids, so I can forgive his assumptions).

Normally, when he catches them playing around, he'll make them run laps or do jumps or do pushups and such. He'll usually make them work out like that for the full class time if they don't want to behave. In this case, he just didn't see the intial conduct, and it really got turned from a molehill to a mountain by the father of the child.

Sincerely,
Thomas Kangas

 

[Rob Broad]

As an instructor I would remove the childs belt until he could shold that he deserved to wear it, and if his father had something to say about it I would refer him to my competition and let them deal with this guy.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

LOL Rob, that's great! Funny thing is that this dad thinks his son is the next olympian, and has already threatened to pull him from the class. Darn if that should happen.

As for pulling the belt, my instructor does do that to several students when they totally misbehave. He almost did it to me, but instead kicked me out of the Dojang. I had to beg and plead, and ask for a meeting with him and our Grand Master in order to get back in.

When I did finally get back in, I made a complete turnaround in the way I trained even. I stepped it up big time.

Honestly, I don't think most informed parents would want their kids training anywhere else. The rates we pay for monthly training are really cheap compared to the other schools around, and the curriculum is much deeper, and to me more interesting.


The real funny thing is that this kids mother is one of my wife and I's best friend. Even she disagrees with the way her husband acts sometimes, but what's a spouse to do? LOL

Sincerely,
Thomas Kangas

 

[deadhand31]

Well, I would say that telling the kid off was a perfectly acceptable solution.

In our school, normally kids are separate from the adults, but adults can still help in the kids class, even if the kids are ranked higher. The adults, however, have commanding authority. Basically, if a blue belt adult orders a red belt kid to do pushups, they have to do them.

We only mix the kids and the adults in our black belt classes. In those cases, the junior black belts are pushed just as hard as the adults, and will even spar adults on occasion. However, even if the kid is first dan/poom, and an adult is cho-dan, then the kid will still have to respect the adult.

Tkang, I would not have apologized to the father. Sometimes, parents need to be told that their kids aren't ready or are having an attitude. There have been parents told this, and the smart ones accept the advice. The other ones? Well, there's a sport tkd school right down the road...

 

[Rob Broad]

You can only hope that they finally do send the kid to another school so that he is bothering the competition. As for disciplining adults, I think it is bad for moral, and bad busness. Adults come to class to learn, and do so with so many other things competing for their time. If an adult acts up remove them for the night, or don't teach them, that is the way I have handled things in teh past.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Deadhand, I appologized to the father not for reprimanding his son, but for being so willing to elevate his empty threat if he so choose. In doing so, I think I showed myself to be a bigger person (I could be wrong though).

Rob Broad, I didn't mind the reprimand. I did kinda deserve it because I was none to polite when I told the kid to pound sand. Given the difficulties I had with my KJN before, It was a rather light reprimand. I think he was thinking along the same lines as I was, which was to diffuse the situation before I did take up the offer for some extra curricular with the dad.

As you said, you would have removed them for the night, or not teach them. The not teach them is what my KJN had in mind at the time. I begged and pleaded because I've seen the other schools around my neck of the woods, and most of them seem way McDojangish. That, and the goals of those schools don't particularly mesh with mine.

Sincerely,
Thomas Kangas

 

[bignick]

The only day that children are in class with the adults is Thursday nights for the advanced students (6th gup to 1st DAN).

I see, yes...I drive around 90 miles(roundtrip) to train in the summer...so when i go i try to make the most of it so i'll show up for the youth class as well, sometimes i just sit in the back of the gym and stretch, workout with myself...other times the instructors have me help out...

kids can be hard to deal with, i actually helped instruct a kid's class for two and a half months because the assistant instructor couldn't help for a while.....working with children can be very frustrating and rewarding...at the same time

in our school it's clear the children defer to adults...but once a child reaches the poom level...it's a different dynamic...poom is still an achievement...no it's not a full chodan...but you should still respect these kids for the hard work they put in to reach their rank...

respect is a two way street and you need to have just as much respect for children/lower ranks as you do for adults or higher ranks...obviously this kid doesn't have any respect for you...so whether or not you owe him respect is an iffy question...i think you handled the situation fine...and congrats on getting back into tkd and training hard

 

[shesulsa]

IMHO, you could have taken the boy to the side and explained that even though he outranks you in color belt, you by FAR outrank him in years and that another important part of the martial way is to always respect your elders. You might also have added that if he sincerely feels that you are out of line that he should feel free to discuss this with KJN and you would be very happy to go discuss it at the same time.

And when it comes to dealing with parents, from my own personal experience, I think it's best to leave all discussions with parents to the head instructor or the instructor of the class. In the case where he confronts you, you can simply say, "I understand you're frustrated, let's please discuss this with KJN since he's the instructor and is in charge and should hear what you have to say."

That way, you don't reprimand anybody and you always defer to the ultimate authority at hand - your KJN.

Just my .02.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Big Nick,

Thanks for the support. I don't suppose I really respect the kid too much. I have to remind myself that his playing around is probably pretty normal for his age. I guess I just don't see it because my 7 year old takes his training extremely seriously.

As far as getting back into TKD, I'm just glad that the lesson I had to learn was one that I picked up on quickly. You see, I started developing an attitude because at times I had let my own ranking go to my head. I got thrown out of the Dojang because I let my ego get the best of me, and walked off the floor one day (Very Disrespectful on my part, I know).

When I was granted the opportunity to come back to train, I decided that if I ever have a day where my ego or attitude is going to interefere, then I should to the right thing, and call my KJN and let him know I won't be attending class.

It was particularly hard when I had to leave, because my wife is a 1st DAN, and so her loyalties to me, and to our KJN were strained. I'm glad we got it all worked out though.

I do actually enjoy getting to work with some of the older kids (Teens, most of them troubled). They see the way I train and tend to try to fit into that mold. So, when I acted out, I let much more than my KJN down. It was a learning experience for me to find out that I was actually being looked up to.

I do especially like working with the junior belts in class. It's refreshing to see them come in, and try to soak up everything, and more importantly, I get the opportunity to impart some of the wisdom that I've picked up along the way. It makes me feel like I'm giving back

Also, I applaud your dedication to drive such a distance just to train. I thought I was going way out of my way to train where I train, and it's only about 22 miles round trip (there are dojangs within walking distance of my house).

Sincerely,
Thomas Kangas

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Shesulsa,

Thanks for your advice. I think in retrospect, I should have handled it the way you state. I guess I can blame it on my Military environment. I'm in a postition of Authority within the military structure, so I'm used to commanding the respect of my juniors. In this case, I think jumped on the kid because I simply refuse to take correction from a child.

Sincerely,
Thomas Kangas

 

[bignick]

My judo instructor once told me, referring to children, that he's found that when somebody has left the art and then comes back as an adult...they'll most likely never leave again...because they had something missing...and then they realized what it was...this is my story...i made it to 3rd gup as a child and had to quit cause the school in my hometown closed, it was a total of six years that i didn't train...i started again when i went to college...started over as a white belt...as for your situation...i've seen this apply to adults too...they walk away...some never come back...but the ones that do...even maybe you didn't "walk away"...more politely escorted away...as it sounds...but once they come back, their dedication is redoubled and it's amazing to see the change....