2 Hour Intro to Wing Chun Class

[JR 137]

It's a good solution for folks who are going to be out most of a month (something that happens regularly with my students), but nobody seems to be interested in it otherwise. I could see someone considering it when they start, but the cost for a month is the same as the cost of 5 classes, so they lose money if they come in twice a week for 3 weeks. I've considered letting folks buy a 10-class or 20-class package, to get a price similar to the monthly cost. Right now it would be too difficult to keep track of. If I ever get that database program to a beta stage, that kind of tracking would be part of what I'd have available.

Sorry... there's far too many posts between yours and the last one, but anyway...

It's very easy to keep track of. Sell them a "punch card" (don't know what else to call it). If each class is $10, sell a 5 class card for $50 and a 10 class card for $100. Every time they come to class, punch a hole in the card. When no more classes remain, they buy a new card.

I used those dollar amounts and class numbers because they were easy. Charge whatever you want. Give a discount on larger dollar amounts like 12 classes for $100 if you'd like.

My former sensei's wife ran cardio kickboxing in the dojo at non-karate times. That system worked great for them. He didn't do that for karate, but I can't see it not working. And it's pretty hard to scam - have your own card, and hand sign it when sold. Unless you can't recognize your own signature, there's no way I know of to get away with phony cards (not that they had any issues).

 

[wingchun100]

I think the minimum for filing is actually a different number. I forget why, but I recall it being around $10K. Once you earn that much in total (all forms of income), however, all income has to be declared. So, if you only earn $5,000 for the year, you don't file (and wouldn't owe taxes on your MA earnings). However, if you have a job that pays $35,000, and earn $5,000 via MA, your MA earnings are stacked onto your other earnings (minus any allowable expenses).

Aha! You see, someone tried pulling a fast one on me many moons ago. Unfortunately, by now they have long since gotten away with their deceit.

Brief rundown: I have twin daughters. When they were still young enough to need daycare, their mother and I split up. Their mother got HER mom to handle the babysitting. Well, here's the thing: Grandma said she wanted $250 per week from us. That mean $125 for my half. (Naturally, we all know $125 was ALL she was getting because she was not taking a dime from my ex, but that's a tale for another thread.)

So $125 per week times 52 weeks in the year: $6500. Grandma was trying to be slick, earning just enough under that standard deduction without having to declare it.

However, as you just said, she SHOULD have claimed it because she was also working a state job at the time and, at the top of her pay grade, was earning about $35,000 per year.

I wish I had known this stuff back then. I thought it was based on the income earned from each job separately, not combined!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry... there's far too many posts between yours and the last one, but anyway...

It's very easy to keep track of. Sell them a "punch card" (don't know what else to call it). If each class is $10, sell a 5 class card for $50 and a 10 class card for $100. Every time they come to class, punch a hole in the card. When no more classes remain, they buy a new card.

I used those dollar amounts and class numbers because they were easy. Charge whatever you want. Give a discount on larger dollar amounts like 12 classes for $100 if you'd like.

My former sensei's wife ran cardio kickboxing in the dojo at non-karate times. That system worked great for them. He didn't do that for karate, but I can't see it not working. And it's pretty hard to scam - have your own card, and hand sign it when sold. Unless you can't recognize your own signature, there's no way I know of to get away with phony cards (not that they had any issues).

That's not a bad idea. I need to think how that works with accrual-basis accounting (I've been advised to switch, and will have to if I start keeping an inventory of uniforms to sell). With cash-basis, it's easy. With accrual-basis, those cards are liabilities until they're used up, so each "punch" should technically be accounted for to offset the liability. I've been working on a database application that would handle attendance and payment tracking, and that would solve the problem, but it's probably going to take me months to get it to some finished state. In the meantime, I haven't opted to switch to accrual-basis yet, so maybe the punch cards are a solution for now.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Aha! You see, someone tried pulling a fast one on me many moons ago. Unfortunately, by now they have long since gotten away with their deceit.

Brief rundown: I have twin daughters. When they were still young enough to need daycare, their mother and I split up. Their mother got HER mom to handle the babysitting. Well, here's the thing: Grandma said she wanted $250 per week from us. That mean $125 for my half. (Naturally, we all know $125 was ALL she was getting because she was not taking a dime from my ex, but that's a tale for another thread.)

So $125 per week times 52 weeks in the year: $6500. Grandma was trying to be slick, earning just enough under that standard deduction without having to declare it.

However, as you just said, she SHOULD have claimed it because she was also working a state job at the time and, at the top of her pay grade, was earning about $35,000 per year.

I wish I had known this stuff back then. I thought it was based on the income earned from each job separately, not combined!

In today's tax regulations, you'd have had to file a 1099 on her, anyway (anything over $600, usually), which would have put it in the IRS system.

 

[wingchun100]

In today's tax regulations, you'd have had to file a 1099 on her, anyway (anything over $600, usually), which would have put it in the IRS system.

Well, unfortunately that was all in 2005. I don't think they audit back that far.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well, unfortunately that was all in 2005. I don't think they audit back that far.

They are generally limited to about 6 years, so no help there.

 

[wingchun100]

They are generally limited to about 6 years, so no help there.

Yes. Well, live and learn.

 

[JR 137]

That's not a bad idea. I need to think how that works with accrual-basis accounting (I've been advised to switch, and will have to if I start keeping an inventory of uniforms to sell). With cash-basis, it's easy. With accrual-basis, those cards are liabilities until they're used up, so each "punch" should technically be accounted for to offset the liability. I've been working on a database application that would handle attendance and payment tracking, and that would solve the problem, but it's probably going to take me months to get it to some finished state. In the meantime, I haven't opted to switch to accrual-basis yet, so maybe the punch cards are a solution for now.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about (I'm a science teacher, not a business guy).

Not sure about the liability; they have a card with a bunch of squares on it. After every square has a hole punched into it, they buy a new card. Sell a card, document the money taken it as you currently do. I wouldn't sell more than a dozen or so classes at a time; allowing them to pay for 50 classes at once seems like nothing but problems.

It's their responsibility not to lose the card.

Keep track of attendance the same way you currently do.

Or perhaps none of this is what you were referring to.

 

[wingchun100]

I need to go back through this thread with a notebook and write down some of the ideas because there were quite a few good suggestions, especially when I mentioned the idea of starting out for free and then moving to paid classes, but I have lost track of them!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about (I'm a science teacher, not a business guy).

Not sure about the liability; they have a card with a bunch of squares on it. After every square has a hole punched into it, they buy a new card. Sell a card, document the money taken it as you currently do. I wouldn't sell more than a dozen or so classes at a time; allowing them to pay for 50 classes at once seems like nothing but problems.

It's their responsibility not to lose the card.

Keep track of attendance the same way you currently do.

Or perhaps none of this is what you were referring to.

It's accounting gobbledygook. Most folks won't be aware of it, even if they have to deal with it. Their accountant or bookkeeper will simply tell them some things to do, and the issue will be covered. I am a management consultant, so I get into a lot of business fine points. I've used some of that to help small business owners get their businesses going the right way, so I'm reasonably well versed in some minutia like that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I need to go back through this thread with a notebook and write down some of the ideas because there were quite a few good suggestions, especially when I mentioned the idea of starting out for free and then moving to paid classes, but I have lost track of them!

Probably because I've been involved in three different discussions here that were all off-topic for the original post, Steve.

 

[wingchun100]

Probably because I've been involved in three different discussions here that were all off-topic for the original post, Steve.

Around here, it's par for the course. However, there were some great ideas in here.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's their responsibility not to lose the card.

what happens if they lose the card?

 

[Hazardi172]

So you are, in fact advocating not paying taxes as the law requires.

I'm advocating not making extra work for myself over something trivial. If friends wish to give me gifts of cash after we spend a bit of time learning VT then great . Taxing it would only make it disappear.

 

[Hazardi172]

Not opportunity cost if you are going to pay eventually. If not, then that supports the research I mentioned that people,who pay monthly attend more regularly. As for making your money work, that makes sense only if enough money is involves, at a high enough rate of return, to be worth the time spent earning it. The interest income on $10 held for 3 weeks is less than a penny unless you are earning a very high rate (not available in short-term lossless vehicles).

Opportunity cost is only accrued when money or time is spent. Before that point the option to do otherwise is still available, and so no opportunity cost

In general it is more sensible to keep options open rather than closing them, and to use money to make other money for as long as possible, rather than give it to someone else in exchange for goods and services that you don't need right now!

Some people recognise this while others don't. The people I tend to like training with are mostly in the first group, as I am

 

[Gerry Seymour]

what happens if they lose the card?

If you're not tracking it, that would be on them. If you're tracking attendance against the card, you could issue them a new card with the remainder on it. Mind you, you'd have to track the card numbers then (giving each card a unique number) to avoid someone saying they lost it, then finding it a few months later and using it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm advocating not making extra work for myself over something trivial. If friends wish to give me gifts of cash after we spend a bit of time learning VT then great . Taxing it would only make it disappear.

You're rationalizing. You're charging them for training. It's not a gift, unless you don't expect them to pay. You want to keep all the money, rather than paying the taxes that are due on it. That's called "tax evasion".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Opportunity cost is only accrued when money or time is spent. Before that point the option to do otherwise is still available, and so no opportunity cost

In general it is more sensible to keep options open rather than closing them, and to use money to make other money for as long as possible, rather than give it to someone else in exchange for goods and services that you don't need right now!

Some people recognise this while others don't. The people I tend to like training with are mostly in the first group, as I am

You're misusing the term "opportunity cost". You can only apply that term when the alternative use is an option. If you're planning to actually go to that next class, then that money is allocated and is not available for alternative spending.

And you keep ignoring the fact that monthly payment is actually cheaper (significantly) for the student. They are losing money by paying per-class. You keep making the same derogatory comment over and over, without being able to provide a single explanation of how they would earn more money by holding a few dollars for a few weeks, nor are you able to address the loss by paying more frequently. You clearly don't actually understand the time-value of money, so I'm done with this discussion.

When you teach, you do what seems best for you (except for that part about evading taxes - that's just wrong). I'll do what's best for my students, and stick to following the laws.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you're not tracking it, that would be on them. If you're tracking attendance against the card, you could issue them a new card with the remainder on it. Mind you, you'd have to track the card numbers then (giving each card a unique number) to avoid someone saying they lost it, then finding it a few months later and using it.

Could be a customer service nightmare if they lose the card and the person is not tracking it which is why I asked. I was curious to know what he did when someone lost the card. Did he just say tough luck or did he try to work with the student who lost the card to come up with a solution that would allow the student to train.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'll do what's best for my students, and stick to following the laws.

Yep "Tax Man" always wins when they catch the scent of someone skipping out on taxes. lol.. Which is actually an Opportunity Cost within itself lol.